Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 10th Oct 2010 14:17 UTC, submitted by Extend
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu Yes, yes, it's that time of the year again - a new Fiona Apple album confirmed (which makes anything that happens between now and spring 2011 irrelevant and annoying), MorphOS 2.6 released (will be the next news item), and, of course, a new Ubuntu release showcasing the best of the best that the Free software world has to offer in the desktop world.
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RE[3]: Solid release
by Thom_Holwerda on Sun 10th Oct 2010 22:56 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Solid release"
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

Except that release after release, finger-pointing after finger-pointing, KDE 4 still performs like a dog. First I had to wait for an updated ATI driver. Didn't fix it. Then I had to wait for the next release. Didn't fix it. Then I had to use the open source driver. Didn't fix it. Then I had to use the next version of the open driver. Didn't fix it. Then I had to wait for the next release again. Didn't fix it. And in between, I was instructed to use distribution Abc, Xyz, or Mno. Neither of them fixed it. I even tried multiple computers - old, new, laptop, desktop. Didn't fix it.

Maybe 4.6 will finally actually be usable, but after so many bites, I'm not holding my breath.

Edited 2010-10-10 22:58 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[4]: Solid release
by KAMiKAZOW on Sun 10th Oct 2010 23:52 in reply to "RE[3]: Solid release"
KAMiKAZOW Member since:
2005-07-06

A whole Software Compilation can't perform. Or do you have performance problems with Marble, Kopete, KWrite/Kate, Blogilo, Gwenview, Okular,...?
I certainly don't and I find said applications among the best, if not the best, in their respective cathegories.

Judging by your comment you have problems with KWin which may has bugs itself or triggers bugs in Xorg/Mesa/Catalyst.
If Metacity, Mutter, or Compiz works well for you, the logical conclusion is to use either window manager instead of KWin. Since pretty much all window managers are easily interchangeable, doing so is a no brainer. System Settings even has a control module to select a window manager.

I think your technical knowledge is good enough to be able to distinguish between problems with the window manager itself and a bundle of applications. So please write something along the lines of "KWin doesn't perform well foe me" or one might be inclined to call you troll even though you didn't mean to.

Reply Parent Score: 6

v RE[5]: Solid release
by tylerdurden on Mon 11th Oct 2010 00:24 in reply to "RE[4]: Solid release"
RE[4]: Solid release
by nt_jerkface on Mon 11th Oct 2010 00:02 in reply to "RE[3]: Solid release"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

Well I consider the Linux desktop to be in beta anyways so to me your experience is moot.

Gnome may be ahead in some areas today but I still think that building around it is a mistake.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Solid release
by phoenix on Mon 11th Oct 2010 01:52 in reply to "RE[3]: Solid release"
phoenix Member since:
2005-07-11

Except that release after release, finger-pointing after finger-pointing, KDE 4 still performs like a dog.


Define "performs like a dog". ;)

My HTPC is an ancient P4 Celeron laptop with only 512 MB of RAM and an ancient Ati Radeon 7000 graphics chipset. Runs Kubuntu 9.something with Plasma Netbook from KDE SC 4.4. No problems watching Xvid encoded videos over NFS, surfing the web (although 800x600 isn't the greatest resolution for that), or watching youtube videos.

My desktop is a simple P4 with onboard Intel graphics and 2 GB of RAM. Runs FreeBSD with KDE SC 4.5 with desktop effects disabled. No issues running K3B, Kdenlive, Firefox, Flash, H.264-encoded videos, Amarok, etc on top of ZFS. 1680x1050 resolution.

My work desktop is a single-core AMD Sempron w/2 GB of RAM and an nVidia dual-monitor setup (1280x1024 x2) and desktop effects enabled. Generally have multiple versions of Firefox and Chrome open with 5-10 tabs each, multiple Konsole windows open with 5-10 tabs each, KdeSVN, KATE, etc.

And my eeePC 1005HA runs Arch Linux with KDE SC 4.5 without issues, even when watching Xvid-encoded videos over wireless, and when connected to a 27" monitor at 1680x1050 resolution.

Apps start quickly (depends where they're being loaded from). Apps run quickly. Switching apps is snappy. Moving windows is snappy. Things rarely stutter (usually due to overloaded I/O system).

So, unless you are going to quantify what "slow as a dog" really means, your comments aren't really all that useful.

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE[5]: Solid release
by fretinator on Tue 12th Oct 2010 00:22 in reply to "RE[4]: Solid release"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

Perhaps he meant greyhound.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Solid release
by elsewhere on Mon 11th Oct 2010 06:34 in reply to "RE[3]: Solid release"
elsewhere Member since:
2005-07-13

Except that release after release, finger-pointing after finger-pointing, KDE 4 still performs like a dog for my particular setup.


FTFY

KDE 4 works perfectly well for me, and I suspect I'm in the silent majority otherwise the project would be pretty much dead by now. But by the same token, I wouldn't declare KDE 4 to be a fait accompli, because I know that many people still have issues that need to be addressed, even if they don't affect me.

Fair is fair, and context is even fairer. ;)

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[5]: Solid release
by Thom_Holwerda on Mon 11th Oct 2010 07:13 in reply to "RE[4]: Solid release"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

What part of "I even tried multiple computers - old, new, laptop, desktop. Didn't fix it" didn't you understand?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Solid release
by n.l.o on Mon 11th Oct 2010 09:39 in reply to "RE[3]: Solid release"
n.l.o Member since:
2009-09-14

Except that release after release, finger-pointing after finger-pointing, KDE 4 still performs like a dog. First I had to wait for an updated ATI driver. Didn't fix it. Then I had to wait for the next release. Didn't fix it. Then I had to use the open source driver. Didn't fix it. Then I had to use the next version of the open driver. Didn't fix it. Then I had to wait for the next release again. Didn't fix it. And in between, I was instructed to use distribution Abc, Xyz, or Mno. Neither of them fixed it. I even tried multiple computers - old, new, laptop, desktop. Didn't fix it.

Maybe 4.6 will finally actually be usable, but after so many bites, I'm not holding my breath.


What specifically "runs like a dog" Thom?

It performs very well for me even in a Parallels VM with no acceleration whatsoever due to the Parallels Tools not supporting xorg 1.9.

Edited 2010-10-11 09:40 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Solid release
by Thom_Holwerda on Mon 11th Oct 2010 09:52 in reply to "RE[4]: Solid release"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

What specifically "runs like a dog" Thom?


I don't know. I know Kwin has major issues, but I was never allowed to say so since supposedly, everything else was always at fault (as listed in my previous comment). The problem is that due to Kwin being a mess, simple, basic stuff like resizing and dragging a window feels a lot like the Windows XP days, tearing and all. It's not my machine (tried different machines), it's not the driver (tried dozens of versions), it's not open vs. closed driver (tried them both, multiple versions), and it's not distribution (tried many of them).

There are other issues, though. Since Kwin sucks, everything that needs an effect is slow too, even basic things like opening a menu - and this on machines more powerful than god. I can run GNOME+Compiz or Windows 7 on just about anything without so much as a hickup in performance (even on first-gen Atom netbooks), yet KDE4 is still slow as a dog.

The funny thing is that when people say "KDE4 just doesn't perform well", you always get an excuse, the most asinine of which is "it's just kwin, turn effects off and everything is fast again". HOW is that any better? Are you seriously telling your users to shut off something that has become so basic that we've been using it for, I don't know, 3-4 years now?

Are KDE people honestly telling me that in order to make my machine faster.... I need to turn off GPU rendering? You know, Mac OS X, Windows, and GNOME+Compiz actually get heck of a lot slower when you turn GPU rendering off! Responsiveness goes down the drain.

It's all classic attribution theory. Kwin's virtues are considered KDE4's virtues, while Kwin's flaws are never considered KDE4's flaws.

But, I guess I'm just a troll. Just keep calling everybody who has serious cross-machine/cross-version/cross-distribution performance issues with KDE4 trolls, that'll surely solve the problem!

Edited 2010-10-11 09:52 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: Solid release
by Laurence on Mon 11th Oct 2010 09:46 in reply to "RE[3]: Solid release"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

Except that release after release, finger-pointing after finger-pointing, KDE 4 still performs like a dog. First I had to wait for an updated ATI driver. Didn't fix it. Then I had to wait for the next release. Didn't fix it. Then I had to use the open source driver. Didn't fix it. Then I had to use the next version of the open driver. Didn't fix it. Then I had to wait for the next release again. Didn't fix it. And in between, I was instructed to use distribution Abc, Xyz, or Mno. Neither of them fixed it. I even tried multiple computers - old, new, laptop, desktop. Didn't fix it.

Maybe 4.6 will finally actually be usable, but after so many bites, I'm not holding my breath.

That's weird because KDE4 has worked perfectly for me on every system I've tested it on.

In fact, it's so stable and responsive that I've used it as my primary desktop environment since version 4.2 (IIRC)

It's funny how different people exeriences can differ so much

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Solid release
by segedunum on Mon 11th Oct 2010 12:40 in reply to "RE[3]: Solid release"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

First I had to wait for an updated ATI driver. Didn't fix it. Then I had to wait for the next release. Didn't fix it. Then I had to use the open source driver. Didn't fix it. Then I had to use the next version of the open driver. Didn't fix it. Then I had to wait for the next release again. Didn't fix it.

Fix what, exactly?

I love these kinds of posts. It didn't fix this, or fix that, it performs like a dog.......and you never get to hear what the problem actually is. It reads more like an excuse for some reason......... I got it installed on a Macbook for crying out loud.

Fact is that KDE is the only open source desktop today that comes anywhere close to competing with how the proprietary competition has moved on. Like it or lump it, but these Ubuntu releases won't amount to a hill of beans until they use or create a desktop that does what the rest of the world cares about.

Edited 2010-10-11 12:59 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[5]: Solid release
by Thom_Holwerda on Mon 11th Oct 2010 14:51 in reply to "RE[4]: Solid release"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

I love these kinds of posts. It didn't fix this, or fix that, it performs like a dog.......and you never get to hear what the problem actually is. It reads more like an excuse for some reason......... I got it installed on a Macbook for crying out loud.


Don't lie. I've written quite clearly what the issue is: Kwin. It might sound like just one component, but the problem with Kwin is that once Kwin has issues, it permeates into everything else. If responsiveness is bad, everything is bad. If, in this day and age, you can't even code a properly responsive desktop (and I've yet to find the magic driver/hardware/distribution/KDE version combination that is responsive), then you've got problems - major problems.

The interesting thing is that I've had KDE developers confirm to me that Kwin simply has a lot of performance problems - so the people who actually code for KDE know there are problems. It's always the armchair folk such as yourself that gets all their panties in a twist because he can't grasp that there is a sizeable number of people who are experiencing problems with Kwin.

From day one, I've been extremely positive about KDE4 as a concept, and the progress has been phenomenal. It's just that Kwin is lagging behind (literally), but because it is such a vital component, it shows in daily use quite clearly. Moving windows around, opening menus, minimising/maximising, resizing - things you do all the time - things that add up.

KDE/Qt is miles ahead of GNOME/Gtk+ (both are miles behind Windows 7, mind) - it's just that when I have to choose between technologically advanced but unresponsive, or crude but responsive, the choice is simple.

Edited 2010-10-11 14:52 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1