Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 10th Oct 2010 14:17 UTC, submitted by Extend
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu Yes, yes, it's that time of the year again - a new Fiona Apple album confirmed (which makes anything that happens between now and spring 2011 irrelevant and annoying), MorphOS 2.6 released (will be the next news item), and, of course, a new Ubuntu release showcasing the best of the best that the Free software world has to offer in the desktop world.
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RE[5]: Solid release
by Thom_Holwerda on Mon 11th Oct 2010 09:52 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Solid release"
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

What specifically "runs like a dog" Thom?


I don't know. I know Kwin has major issues, but I was never allowed to say so since supposedly, everything else was always at fault (as listed in my previous comment). The problem is that due to Kwin being a mess, simple, basic stuff like resizing and dragging a window feels a lot like the Windows XP days, tearing and all. It's not my machine (tried different machines), it's not the driver (tried dozens of versions), it's not open vs. closed driver (tried them both, multiple versions), and it's not distribution (tried many of them).

There are other issues, though. Since Kwin sucks, everything that needs an effect is slow too, even basic things like opening a menu - and this on machines more powerful than god. I can run GNOME+Compiz or Windows 7 on just about anything without so much as a hickup in performance (even on first-gen Atom netbooks), yet KDE4 is still slow as a dog.

The funny thing is that when people say "KDE4 just doesn't perform well", you always get an excuse, the most asinine of which is "it's just kwin, turn effects off and everything is fast again". HOW is that any better? Are you seriously telling your users to shut off something that has become so basic that we've been using it for, I don't know, 3-4 years now?

Are KDE people honestly telling me that in order to make my machine faster.... I need to turn off GPU rendering? You know, Mac OS X, Windows, and GNOME+Compiz actually get heck of a lot slower when you turn GPU rendering off! Responsiveness goes down the drain.

It's all classic attribution theory. Kwin's virtues are considered KDE4's virtues, while Kwin's flaws are never considered KDE4's flaws.

But, I guess I'm just a troll. Just keep calling everybody who has serious cross-machine/cross-version/cross-distribution performance issues with KDE4 trolls, that'll surely solve the problem!

Edited 2010-10-11 09:52 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: Solid release
by n.l.o on Mon 11th Oct 2010 10:06 in reply to "RE[5]: Solid release"
n.l.o Member since:
2009-09-14

Weirdness indeed!

OpenSUSE 11.3 (Remix with KDE4.5.1) and Kubuntu 10.10 have worked flawlessly on every machine I've tried them on, even a 7yr old crappy machine.

I haven't used any version pre-4.5.1 since the God-afwul 4.0 though, so I dunno if it's 4.5.1 that is the answer for you or not?

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: Solid release
by segedunum on Mon 11th Oct 2010 12:59 in reply to "RE[5]: Solid release"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

The problem is that due to Kwin being a mess....

That's a curious statement to start off with. First of all, where do you get the idea that Kwin is a mess?

Yep things might be slow for some people on some hardware (they're not for me, and I've got the thing running on a Macbook!) but I'm more than a little bemused that you start off with the statement that Kwin is a mess. It kind of gives the impression you have a default view of things.......

Edited 2010-10-11 13:05 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Solid release
by gfx1 on Tue 12th Oct 2010 18:06 in reply to "RE[5]: Solid release"
gfx1 Member since:
2006-01-20

Personally I can't stand KDE, I have tried several versions of kubuntu on a test partition but there is always some irritation.
Nowadays I stick with ubuntu.
Not perfect either, shotwell is dogslow building it's library compared to picasa and slows down the rest a lot.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: Solid release
by bassbeast on Wed 13th Oct 2010 06:18 in reply to "RE[5]: Solid release"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Hi, Mr Holwerda. I don't think you are a troll, I just think you are starting to run into something deeper that most Linux guys will refuse to even admit...Linux is NOT a desktop OS, it is SERVER OS. Don't get me wrong, the amount of work that has been done while fighting the kernel devs has been amazing, but as you are seeing it is often "2 steps forward, 3 steps back" because Linus and the other devs are being paid the big bux by SERVER companies who only care about SERVER I/O and SERVER benchmarks.

See this article for an example...http://www.thinkdigit.com/forum/discussions/81361-why-i-quit-kernel...

Sadly this article came out in 07 and things haven't gotten any better, and if one would think logically it would all make sense: There is a reason why MSFT has separate server and desktop products and that is because what is good for one is often not good for the other. servers are primarily concerned with throughput, so they can serve as many user requests as possible. On a desktop things like buffering video, smoothing windows, these things matter to the end user but NOT to the server, which is often sans GUI.

Ultimately for Linux to have a real shot at being a true "third way" I truly believe the kernel will have to be forked AWAY from Linus and the other server paid kernel devs, who simply refuse to believe that what is good for one may not be good for the other. Considering Linus says "Linux isn't designed it "evolves like a virus" I'm not sure he is the best guy to ask about desktops anyway. Link to quote..http://kerneltrap.org/node/11

So there is my 02c, and I'll probably get called bad names too for daring to say anything other than "Gee Biff, isn't Linux swell?" but ultimately to get Linux into every walmart and mom&pop shop it truly needs to be designed with the desktop user as job #1 and that just isn't happening ATM.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[7]: Solid release
by Neolander on Wed 13th Oct 2010 09:13 in reply to "RE[6]: Solid release"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

So there is my 02c, and I'll probably get called bad names too for daring to say anything other than "Gee Biff, isn't Linux swell?" but ultimately to get Linux into every walmart and mom&pop shop it truly needs to be designed with the desktop user as job #1 and that just isn't happening ATM.

Problem is, if you go this way, unices are just not made for desktop use, even down to the POSIX level (where text I/O and a complicated directory structure are outrageously favored). GUI on unices (and Linux in particular) is fundamentally a shoehorned afterthough.

Edited 2010-10-13 09:24 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: Solid release
by k4ever on Wed 13th Oct 2010 14:36 in reply to "RE[5]: Solid release"
k4ever Member since:
2007-03-20

Thom,

I'm trying to understand your logic here. KDE4 is slow and buggy because Kwin is slow and buggy? Kwin is part of KDE4, not all of KDE4. You can change the windows manager. The part that bugs me is that you compare KDE4 + Kwin to GNOME + Compiz. You do know that Metacity is the default windows manager for GNOME, not Compiz? Why not use Metacity in your comparison? Oh, that's right compositing in Metacity is not that great either. I don't see you blaming GNOME for Metacity's problem but you blame KDE4 for Kwin's problems? So you changed the windows manager for GNOME but you did not do the same for KDE4? That's not fair and you know it. If you like Compiz so much use it instead of Kwin in KDE4. Change it like you did for Metacity in GNOME. Compiz was buggy too when it first came out. Compiz is now the more mature of the two so just use it with KDE4. Buggy problems solved!

BTW I only use Compiz with KDE4.

Reply Parent Score: 1