Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 20th Oct 2010 19:02 UTC
Apple So, Apple held its usual autumn press get-together just now, and after a few rather uninspiring ones (to me, at least), they finally managed to blow me away, with the new MacBook Air (especially the 11.6" variant). They also gave a sneak peek at Mac OS X 10.7 Lion, which has... An App Store. An App Store Apple is going to open on Snow Leopard within 90 days.
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RE[5]: Comment by Kroc
by Morgan on Thu 21st Oct 2010 03:07 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Kroc"
Morgan
Member since:
2005-06-29

Yes.
You have said a series of logical, complete statements that fit together in a linear manner, connecting a number of thoughts together to form a complete picture of what you intended to say.


Ok, it's late (for me, I have to be up for work in a few hours) so maybe I'm being dull, but is this sarcasm? And if not...ummm...thank you?

As to the rest of your anti-Apple-zealot rant, I'm going to assume you weren't referring to me, as I don't think I came off as a zealot in any genre. If anything I saw my post as very pro-HP Mini, but what do I know, I just wrote the damn thing.

As to your hatred of OS X, well to each his own of course, but I'm going to partially side with your seemingly well-meaning "kid" on the matter of how OS X is easy to learn and use, and add that it's a very powerful UNIX OS as well.

Some background: I have been using Linux since 1999, OS X since 2005, Mac OS classic since middle school (late 80s) and DOS/Windows weaved throughout that time frame. There's some BSD, BeOS (yay!), QNX, SyllableOS, Amiga, and CP/M in there too. I have yet to find an OS I hate, though I've found some to be fairly useless.

Given all that, I find OS X to be the quickest path to a *nix box that just freaking works, and a lot of the non-*nix stuff like AppleScript and the Services menu that provide amazing text and file manipulation abilities, combine to make one hell of a powerful OS.

I know it's not for everyone; personally I wish Apple would come up with a better Finder (don't we all, though?), and a lot of what it can do can be achieved in Linux or BSD with various levels of difficulty and learning curves, but the fact remains it's a powerhouse of an operating system that somehow manages to remain simple and accessible to the non-technical general public.

So why haven't I Hackintoshed my Mini yet? Well basically, I don't need OS X on the go. Between Windows and Ubuntu, the netbook does everything I need it to. I've even considered nuking the Windows install altogether and triple booting Ubuntu, Slackware and Haiku. Ubuntu for day-to-day functionality as it more or less fully supports the hardware (trackpad silliness notwithstanding); Slackware for straight up geeky fun i.e. the challenge of getting the hardware to work better than it does in Ubuntu; and Haiku for nostalgia and to try to work out hardware bugs so the Haiku team can add another netbook to the "supported" list.

So, take a step back, breathe, and try to realize that hatred of an OS is just plain illogical. Despise the more annoying zealots, sure; we all are guilty of that and it's warranted. But to hate an OS because you don't understand it only shows a lack of logical thinking or at the worst, a childlike mentality. Please, by all means continue using and enjoying your minimal Linux install, and try to understand that we all want to use what works best for us, just like you do.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: Comment by Kroc
by TheGZeus on Thu 21st Oct 2010 03:45 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Kroc"
TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

Nope, not sarcasm. As such, I haven't yet read the rest of your follow-up.
There's just been alot of vitriol spewed in the comments here, and most people are just shouting gibberish at each other.
I've been ...colourful in my language, but if you look at the meat of what I've said, it follows logic, and the rest is opinion stated as such.

I simply admire your ability to see things for what they are, which seems to be a skill few possess.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[7]: Comment by Kroc
by Morgan on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 01:21 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Kroc"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Thank you for the compliment. ;)

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by Kroc
by TheGZeus on Thu 21st Oct 2010 04:16 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Kroc"
TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

Read the rest of your post now.
You're an Apple user, but not an Apple Person.

That said...
If you offered to sell me a classic car for 2000usd that was fully restored, I'd ask what the catch was.
There are catches with proprietary software and the ecosystem/enforced-abstraction that Apple creates/promotes with their products, services, and policies.
Lock-in, unfair business practices, developer abuse...
Then again, the only people getting hurt by the developer agreements are people trying to squeeze the plebes for all their fart-app, facebookspam, and silly shake-and-poke-your-phone dollar.

I didn't criticise OS X so much as Apple People (the kind of people saying "ANYTHING THAT ISN'T APPLE IS SHIT STEVE JOBS SAID NETBOOKS ARE SHIT THIS CAN'T BE A NETBOOK!", or the kind that start talking to me about their OS while I have headphones on, am typing, and trying to read about a completely different OS(Linux Format was open near me)), but since you went there...
I really, really dislike how OS X does things. Either type the name of the application or find it in a big list... huh? There's all kinds of brain-dead throughout their system. They might have some cool tools, but they're not making their money from people who know how to use them. They're making their money from people who don't know how to use anything but the dock. ...and I mean the dock for their iPhone.

Me trying to use OS X on my dad's iMac:
"There's... no menu... If I had a command line, I could find the command to open a terminal... -_- Dammit... Where's... Oh, you can search for the description... That's not how the developer would have described it I guess... Umm.... maybe if I go to this Apple symbol in the corner, I think that did something back in elementary school... Wait, it opens a file manager window to launch the programs?? What is this? Windows 3.1?? ALPHABETIC ORDER???"
I think at that point I decided that I'd rather not watch my parents' HDTV, and go use my own computer.

Cool text manipulation? I have Emacs.
I live in Emacs, tmux, zsh, Conkeror...
Do I expect everyone to do that? No.
Do I expect to not be accosted by strangers in caf├ęs and bookstores (I was looking for a book on BSD or something once years ago, and a guy started telling me I should stop using Linux and hackintosh.
Same basic thing "nah, I get why people like it, but those are the very reasons it's not for me"
"It's perfect for everybody!"
"I don't violate contracts"
"what?"
"it's not licensed for use on non-Apple hardware"
"oh, no one cares."
"I do."
"...It's really easy to do, too. I did it to all my computers. You should do it to your computer"
"It doesn't do what I want. I use a tiling window manager, I have no window decorations. I use bitmapped fonts. I use terminals and Emacs. I don't need anything OS X does, and it doesn't let me do any of these things (I know and knew that you can use alternative window managers/xterm etc in OS X, but it's hacky and weird. This guy was a space case with a 1000yd stare, and I wanted the conversation over)"
Then I said
"...and I have an AMD Processor in my laptop, anyway, so-"
"ah, so that's why you didn't do it..."
0_0 ... *walks off in a huff*

It's why I didn't try it back when my computer first died of careless XP use, (I can never not see that OS' name as an emoticon...) but within months I had a ThinkPad... and I put Debian on it.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[7]: Comment by Kroc
by Morgan on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 01:50 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Kroc"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

By chance, have you taken the Autism Spectrum Quotient? That's a serious question by the way. I took it not long ago and I scored a 25. Anything higher than 32 means you may have Asperger's or high-functioning autism. Given my score and what I know about my social skills and (sometimes lack of) tolerance for well-meaning but pushy or nosy strangers, I'd peg you somewhere between myself and the Asperger's threshold.

Please understand I'm not criticizing or poking fun at you, or at autism for that matter; merely making an observation.

Anyway, you said:

It doesn't do what I want. I use a tiling window manager, I have no window decorations. I use bitmapped fonts. I use terminals and Emacs. I don't need anything OS X does, and it doesn't let me do any of these things


That sentiment can go both ways. A Mac user can say of a Linux box with a minimal X session as you described it, "That doesn't do what I want. I use Expose. I use OS X Terminal. I use AppleScript. I enjoy the Mac's beautiful antialiased fonts. I don't need anything Linux does, and it doesn't let me do any of these things."

I'll add my own item to that list: I use GarageBand to make music. I have tried for years and years to get a handle on the myriad Linux music creation apps, and Jackd alone is enough to give me high blood pressure. Never mind that a low-latency kernel is needed, you also must spend hours tweaking every little setting of every disparate program just to get even close to a usable setup. Custom distros like Ubuntu Studio try to bring all that together in a nice package, but it still falls far short. Even on Windows it's much easier; FLStudio plus Cakewalk plus Sound Forge make a decent digital recording studio, but that's three separate programs that don't always play well together.

As far as I'm concerned, no single program out there in the Windows or Linux world can touch GarageBand for price (free with a Mac), feature set or ease of use. When I want to just sit down at the keyboard and spend a couple of hours wringing out a melodious thought, I can do it without the unnecessary frustration that would zap the creative moment.

And that is the point of all my ranting and raving above, and my mantra for years now: Use the tool that works best for you and for the job at hand. I wouldn't use a nail file to hone an engine piston, just as I wouldn't use a Linux box to create music, or a Mac to play Windows games, or a Windows machine to develop GNOME apps. All of those are possible, but highly inefficient scenarios and a waste of time and resources.

Of course, I'm dreaming of the day I can do all the above in Haiku OS. Figuring out how to get it to hone that piston will be the hard part. ;)

Reply Parent Score: 3