Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 21st Oct 2010 09:13 UTC
Mac OS X After the news that the new MacBook Airs do not ship with Flash pre-installed (which is news considering Flash has been part of Mac OS X for a very long time), we now have news that Apple is also taking what appears to be the first steps towards removing Apple's own Java runtime from Mac OS X.
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What about vi ...
by pica on Thu 21st Oct 2010 10:15 UTC in reply to "RE: native GUI"
pica
Member since:
2005-07-10

Apple ships OS X with vi included. So what about this Apple supported editor? Does it comply with the Apple human interface guidelines?

Sorry, but as a user of jEdit, Netbeans, Eclipse, ... I am very, very glad the key bindings is the same on all platforms.

pica

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: What about vi ...
by kaiwai on Thu 21st Oct 2010 10:26 in reply to "What about vi ..."
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Apple ships OS X with vi included. So what about this Apple supported editor? Does it comply with the Apple human interface guidelines?

Sorry, but as a user of jEdit, Netbeans, Eclipse, ... I am very, very glad the key bindings is the same on all platforms.

pica


vi comes as part of UNIX and isn't covered by the Apple HIG therefore your point is invalid. I never attacked these applications I attacked the fact that if you're attempting to create a multiplatform application there will be problems in that those applications will not always conform to the way the environment operates. Sometimes those differences are trivial such as the look of the application whilst sometimes it can be critical such as having keyboard short cuts that don't conform to the convention of the OS.

The comparison to vi is stupid because vi is a CLI based application and netbeans/eclipse/jEdit are GUI based editors - and there is an HIG for that provided by Apple.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: What about vi ...
by pica on Thu 21st Oct 2010 10:53 in reply to "RE: What about vi ..."
pica Member since:
2005-07-10

Admitted vi is a CLI based application. As a consequence the HIGs are not compulsory. But Apple has been completely free to add Apple key bindings to vi.

Apple did not. Why?

Simply because users of the vi expect vi to behave like vi.

I as a user of jEdit expect jEdit to behave like jEdit. I also expect Netbeans to behave like Netbeans. And so on.

If I want to use an editor which only exists on OS X, I will use neither jEdit nor Gnu Emacs. I intentionally mention the Gnu Emacs editor to show non native key bindings are not Java's fault.

If I want to create applications, which are garanteed to run only on OS X, I won't use Java ;-)

pica

Reply Parent Score: 5

v RE[2]: What about vi ...
by TheGZeus on Thu 21st Oct 2010 13:51 in reply to "RE: What about vi ..."
RE: What about vi ...
by pmac on Thu 21st Oct 2010 15:15 in reply to "What about vi ..."
pmac Member since:
2009-07-08

There's no inherit reason why they couldn't be made to use the apple key in the mac version. Java is capable of doing it, so it's not java's fault!

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: What about vi ...
by jack_perry on Thu 21st Oct 2010 16:15 in reply to "RE: What about vi ..."
jack_perry Member since:
2005-07-06

In fact, the Mac version of jEdit does allow one to do this. It may not be the default (& my iBook is at home, so I can't check it now), but it is possible, if only through customizing the shortcuts, which is available under Utilities->Global Options...->Shortcuts.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: What about vi ...
by MysterMask on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 18:41 in reply to "What about vi ..."
MysterMask Member since:
2005-07-12

Sorry, but as a user of jEdit, Netbeans, Eclipse, ... I am very, very glad the key bindings is the same on all platforms.


???
No, they are not. I don't know about jEdit or Netbeans. But for Eclipse, key bindings are different on OS X and Windows (e. g. Mac key bindings usually use [CMD] while the Windows counterpart use [CTRL]).

Furthermore, Eclipse honors platform specific bindings, e. g. the Mac version knows about the standard [CMD] [,] to open preferences (they even moved the preference menu entry to where you expect it on Mac OS).

This is certainly a good thing and it proofs that Java apps can be integrated quite well on every platform as long as developers are willing to do so.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: What about vi ...
by TheGZeus on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 22:19 in reply to "RE: What about vi ..."
TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

Maybe they share config files across different platforms?
I dunno, I gave up on Eclipse the moment I groked the basics of Emacs.

Reply Parent Score: 1