Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 21st Oct 2010 09:13 UTC
Mac OS X After the news that the new MacBook Airs do not ship with Flash pre-installed (which is news considering Flash has been part of Mac OS X for a very long time), we now have news that Apple is also taking what appears to be the first steps towards removing Apple's own Java runtime from Mac OS X.
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RE: Only as long as ...
by apoclypse on Thu 21st Oct 2010 12:45 UTC in reply to "Only as long as ..."
apoclypse
Member since:
2007-02-17

That doesn't really make sense. There are many multi-gig (sometimes in the hundreds) software out there that would be a pain to download, not to mention that many 3rd party applications have their own licensing schemes which Apple doesn't allow in the app store. Some of these 3rd parties may also not want the user to have the ability to install their applications on as many macs as they own. Adobe comes to mind, but more importantly (at least to me) you have production applications like Ableton, Cubase, even Logic. What do you do if you own a price of hardware that has its own software (like ProTools). Its scary, yes, because I know that is where Apple wants to go, but logistically I don't see it happening. The pro market would defect in a heart beat, but I guess Apple doesn't really care about that market as of late anyway.

I would definitely move elsewhere if Apple were to lock down the Mac, but to where? There is nothing like the Mac for music production, things run smoothly and there is almost never any issues with hardware or software unless a 3rd party isn't paying attention. I can't move back to Linux, because frankly the audio offering and audiostack in Linux sucks balls. Windows is an option but there are issues with hardware and the audiostack while nice isn't as simple to use nor is there anything like CoreMidi for Windows. In WIn7 its better and works pretty well, but it initially had issues when it came to pro audio work because MS didn't bother to test the stupid thing for that use case.

Almost every audio interface has their own set of drivers that may or may not work on your hardware/chipset/version of windows. You don't have to deal with that on a Mac, They generally stress manufacturers to use standard protocols and make it so simple for developers that for the most part most hardware is plug an play, no drivers required. Most of the time manufacturers are only installing helper applications to control the hardware. Nothing really compares to it for Music production, nor video as a I understand it.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Only as long as ...
by pica on Thu 21st Oct 2010 13:36 in reply to "RE: Only as long as ..."
pica Member since:
2005-07-10

Maybe you will move if the OS X system it will be locked. Maybe a few others will move to. But even if 10% of the current users will move, the 30% Apple will charge of every single software licence will overcompensate this loss.

And another point which is unpleasant to read. So I guess, I will get voted down below 0 again.

I my opinion most Apple iPhone/iPad users use it because they feel comfortable, save in this locked down environment. They do not have to decide wether or not to use a specific application. An authority does this for them. They do not have to check if an application may contain malware. An authority does this for them. The lock in frees them from making decisions. From being responsible. Many, many people hate to make decisions or even more evil, to take responsiblity.

So I predicta locked down OS X will attract a damn lot of new users.

pica

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE[3]: Only as long as ...
by segedunum on Thu 21st Oct 2010 17:45 in reply to "RE[2]: Only as long as ..."
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

Maybe you will move if the OS X system it will be locked. Maybe a few others will move to. But even if 10% of the current users will move, the 30% Apple will charge of every single software licence will overcompensate this loss.

Look at the history of Mac OS. Windows and PCs ended up trumping it because the hardware was more ubiquitous and the applications that were developed for it were far more widespread with far fewer development restrictions. You're not going to attract developers and keep users like that.

In a way it's nice to see Apple repeating all their previous mistakes.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Only as long as ...
by Laurence on Thu 21st Oct 2010 13:48 in reply to "RE: Only as long as ..."
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

not to mention that many 3rd party applications have their own licensing schemes which Apple doesn't allow in the app store. Some of these 3rd parties may also not want the user to have the ability to install their applications on as many macs as they own. Adobe comes to mind, but more importantly (at least to me) you have production applications like Ableton, Cubase, even Logic.

At risk of nit-picking, Apple own Logic. Have done since version 6 (hence why Logic switched to Mac only platform). So that specific example was a poor choice.
I would definitely move elsewhere if Apple were to lock down the Mac, but to where? There is nothing like the Mac for music production, things run smoothly and there is almost never any issues with hardware or software unless a 3rd party isn't paying attention.

Windows isn't so bad. As you already know, there's hundreds of professional VST(i)'s for Windows and most of the time it's as stable as the next OS. In fact, much like OS X, the only time I have problems with production on that platform is down to a poorly coded 3rd party plug in - which you meantioned above.


Almost every audio interface has their own set of drivers that may or may not work on your hardware/chipset/version of windows.

Never had that problem. Ever. Never even heard of other people having that problem aside a few users trying to run pre SP2 XP. But given the age of that set up, I don't think theres much room for complaint.


That all said, I'm far from loyal to Windows. Only use it for music production and DJing in Ableton - everything is done in Linux. So if I could justify the cost (it is only hobby after all) I'd buy a MacBook Pro just for Logic.


Off topic for a moment, but what sort of stuff do you produce?

Edited 2010-10-21 13:49 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Only as long as ...
by apoclypse on Thu 21st Oct 2010 19:22 in reply to "RE[2]: Only as long as ..."
apoclypse Member since:
2007-02-17

At risk of nit-picking, Apple own Logic. Have done since version 6 (hence why Logic switched to Mac only platform). So that specific example was a poor choice.


Its not a bad example at all because Logic still uses licenses per install and even if they were to change that, which may be the case, Logic Studio wouldn't fit well in the app store paradigm. Logic Express would however. I've used Logic since version 5 I know Apple owns it. It says Apple Logic on the box every time I buy a new version. ;)


Windows isn't so bad. As you already know, there's hundreds of professional VST(i)'s for Windows and most of the time it's as stable as the next OS. In fact, much like OS X, the only time I have problems with production on that platform is down to a poorly coded 3rd party plug in - which you meantioned above.


My issue is with the hardware drivers on the platform. ASIO while great performance wise is too close to the metal, imo and has issues when a company doesn't care. I'm looking at you Digidesing. See below for details. VSTs for the most part work the same across all supported platforms. Most developers abstract all that stuff anyway so that other than some feature differences even AU versions of their plugins work the same.


Almost every audio interface has their own set of drivers that may or may not work on your hardware/chipset/version of windows.

Never had that problem. Ever. Never even heard of other people having that problem aside a few users trying to run pre SP2 XP. But given the age of that set up, I don't think theres much room for complaint.


Well now you have. Let me tell you a story. My buddy who is a singer has as really niec Dell Studio XPS that he wanted to use to record his vocals on a couple of tracks we are working on. To get the best bang for his buck I directed him to Protools LE which with the interface is $299. Problem was that his device wouldn't work it, regardless of Digidesigns nee AVID's claims of compatibility with Win7 64bit, the stupid thing would BSOD the system consistently. Took it back to the dealer and had to deal with a 3 hour phone call with a rep to de-authorize the license to return it. It was a known issue. Now Digidesign is a special case in that this is what they do, their support is shitty which is not surprising when everyone swears by your shit even if it stinks (see Adobe). However its not limited to just Digidesign. If you do audio and want a low latency external device you are not going to go with USB, you will go with Fire Wire. FW chipsets on PCs vary greatly from cheap spec bait, to the real deal texas instruments chipsets which are recommended by most FW deive manufacturers. All macs with FW have the TI chipsets and have the least issues with FW, which consideirn its Apple's protocol shouldn't be a surprise.


That all said, I'm far from loyal to Windows. Only use it for music production and DJing in Ableton - everything is done in Linux. So if I could justify the cost (it is only hobby after all) I'd buy a MacBook Pro just for Logic.


I used to use Windows back when I used to use Reason heavily. I switched to a Mac because I wanted to keep using Logic.


Off topic for a moment, but what sort of stuff do you produce?


Well I move across a lot of genre's namely because I like some many things but, mainly Hip Hop, Dub, Dubstep, and a little bit of DB and Trance. I've been getting into other stuff as well. I also DJ.

My favorite toy right now is Maschine. Check it out.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Only as long as ...
by macinnisrr on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 14:32 in reply to "RE: Only as long as ..."
macinnisrr Member since:
2009-11-12

Obligatory plug: dream.dickmacinnis.com
Music, Video, Graphics - check
Integrated JACK->Pulseaudio - check
Nice UIs that match the desktop - check
What more do you want?

Reply Parent Score: 1