Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 21st Oct 2010 22:52 UTC
Qt It's a rather unclear time over at Nokia in Espoo (Finland!), with people coming and going, and changes in development strategy. The latest one is, I think, a good one: Nokia has stated it will commit fully to Qt as the sole application development framework for both Symbian and MeeGo.
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RE[3]: Comment by RichterKuato
by lemur2 on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 03:30 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by RichterKuato"
lemur2
Member since:
2007-02-17

All? Really? Don't act like that. You know perfectly well that he rather meant all the apps he considers important to himself, not what are important for some other party. Hell, even I could only find one single application on that list that I use: Skype. Kopete is nice but it is so totally out-of-place on GNOME desktop that I just rather use Pidgin instead. So yeah, for _my_ tastes and needs all the best applications indeed are GTK+.


Pidgin is so totally out of place of a KDE desktop that I'd rather use Kopete.

I'd rather use Amarok than Banshee.

I'd rather use KDE PIM than Evolution.

I'd rather ... but as you say, it depends on the desktop you use. I wouldn't debate that.

My actual point is that there are actually very few gtk-based applications for which one cannot get a Qt-based application that is just as good.

Openoffice and Firefox are about it.

Even then, KDE can make a gtk+ application (such as Openoffice and Firefox) fit far better on the KDE desktop than the GNOME desktop seems to be able to do for Qt-based applications.

One simply uses qtcurve or similar for which the same theme is available for both KDE and gtk. On the KDE desktop, select the same them for gtk applications as the KDE desktop theme, and you are set. An integrated desktop, gtk and qt applications side-by-side and indistinguishable as to which is which. No jaringly out-of-place applications.

http://liquidweather.net/howto/index.php?id=93
http://liquidweather.net/howto/assets/images/9714-1.png
(not that this is necessarily a good theme to select mind you, but it does illustrate the point)

AFAIK you cannot get close to doing this in GNOME. AFAIK in GNOME there is no ability to configure the Qt themes to make Qt applications match visually with the selected GNOME theme. You actually seem to agree with this.

Having said that ... in comparison on a Windows desktop, visual styles for applications are all over the shop, there is almost no consistency at all. So GNOME is not the only desktop which has this kind of problem.

This is the real point I am making I suppose ... which after all rather does make mincemeat of the point that the OP tried to imply (that there were no decent qt applications was the implication).

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[4]: Comment by RichterKuato
by shmerl on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 04:06 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by RichterKuato"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

The good thing is - Meego allows using GTK+ too if someone really wants. Open choice, unlike others who ban anything different from the "master plan".

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Comment by RichterKuato
by lemur2 on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 05:32 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by RichterKuato"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

The good thing is - Meego allows using GTK+ too if someone really wants. Open choice, unlike others who ban anything different from the "master plan".


Exactly. Why not just have the desktop support applications built with either GTK or with Qt toolsets? Why not even arrange for the desktop to set the same theme and fonts and widget styles for both, in the same operation, so that all the applications chnage their look in sympathy?

Or, more to the point ... why does the GNOME desktop fail to do that?

Reply Parent Score: 2

ebasconp Member since:
2006-05-09

Totally out of topic, but, have you tried to use Clementine? It is a very nice port of AmaroK 1.4 to Qt4; I actually prefer using it instead of AmaroK 2.x in my Linux box and it is my main audio player in my mac too.

http://code.google.com/p/clementine-player/

Edited 2010-10-22 04:20 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: Comment by RichterKuato
by KLU9 on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 16:24 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by RichterKuato"
KLU9 Member since:
2006-12-06

Totally out of topic, but, have you tried to use Clementine?

Just yesterday I just started experimenting with the Windows port on my netbook in an attempt to break away from my beloved Winamp Lite.

I don't have any real experience with Amarok so can't compare, and am still discovering Clementine's features. Liking it so far.

Reply Parent Score: 1

molnarcs Member since:
2005-09-10

Agreed. Not only that, but I can't think of a GTK app that has no equivalent or similar application written in QT. Note that neither OpenOffice, nor Firefox are GTK apps - they use their own toolkits. However, there are several QT/KDE apps that have no replacement in GTK (for example, Scribus).

Edited 2010-10-22 07:45 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Agreed. Not only that, but I can't think of a GTK app that has no equivalent or similar application written in QT. Note that neither OpenOffice, nor Firefox are GTK apps - they use their own toolkits. However, there are several QT/KDE apps that have no replacement in GTK (for example, Scribus).

Well, consider the app which started development of GTK : GIMP. There's nothing coming close on KDE, I think.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Comment by RichterKuato
by l3v1 on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 07:45 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by RichterKuato"
l3v1 Member since:
2005-07-06

but as you say, it depends on the desktop you use. I wouldn't debate that.


But I would. I use kde and gnome at different places, but applications I use are all mixed up, since I use a lot of gtk and qt applications as well. And since I use both desktops, I kind of got used to different file selector, printing, etc. dialogs and it doesn't bother me anymore (I mean the difference doesn't, but gtk versions of the same functionalities do, and quite often).

I don't think application use depends on the desktop environment. If it does for some people, then those people just miss out on a great number of very good applications, just because they use a different toolkit, which I'd say is stupid.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[4]: Comment by RichterKuato
by mart on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 08:17 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by RichterKuato"
mart Member since:
2005-11-17


AFAIK you cannot get close to doing this in GNOME. AFAIK in GNOME there is no ability to configure the Qt themes to make Qt applications match visually with the selected GNOME theme. You actually seem to agree with this.


not completely true. In the default installation, Qt has a theme that uses GTK itself to paint, so witll use whatever theme is selected in GNOME http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2008/05/13/introducing-qgtkstyle/

now, that to me is ruining the look of an otherwise perfectly good application, but tasetes are tastes i guess :p
so it's important that it's possible

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: Comment by RichterKuato
by lemur2 on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 09:12 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by RichterKuato"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"
AFAIK you cannot get close to doing this in GNOME. AFAIK in GNOME there is no ability to configure the Qt themes to make Qt applications match visually with the selected GNOME theme. You actually seem to agree with this.


not completely true. In the default installation, Qt has a theme that uses GTK itself to paint, so witll use whatever theme is selected in GNOME http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2008/05/13/introducing-qgtkstyle/

now, that to me is ruining the look of an otherwise perfectly good application, but tasetes are tastes i guess :p so it's important that it's possible
"

That is a Qt project. GNOME itself ignores Qt, doesn't it? This is one of my main reasons for ignoring GNOME, because it seems to be trying to put barriers in my way from running applications that I might want to run.

If there was some active attempt by GNOME to accommodate outside applications in an integrated way, please someone tell me about it and I might pay some attention to GNOME thereafter.

Edited 2010-10-22 09:13 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: Comment by RichterKuato
by miker on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 13:37 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by RichterKuato"
miker Member since:
2009-07-08

OpenOffice and firefox are not GTK apps. They can emulate the appearance of GTK themes, but they both have there own UI frameworks.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: Comment by RichterKuato
by leech on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 15:21 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by RichterKuato"
leech Member since:
2006-01-10

"All? Really? Don't act like that. You know perfectly well that he rather meant all the apps he considers important to himself, not what are important for some other party. Hell, even I could only find one single application on that list that I use: Skype. Kopete is nice but it is so totally out-of-place on GNOME desktop that I just rather use Pidgin instead. So yeah, for _my_ tastes and needs all the best applications indeed are GTK+.


Pidgin is so totally out of place of a KDE desktop that I'd rather use Kopete.

I'd rather use Amarok than Banshee.

I'd rather use KDE PIM than Evolution.

I'd rather ... but as you say, it depends on the desktop you use. I wouldn't debate that.

My actual point is that there are actually very few gtk-based applications for which one cannot get a Qt-based application that is just as good.

Openoffice and Firefox are about it.

Even then, KDE can make a gtk+ application (such as Openoffice and Firefox) fit far better on the KDE desktop than the GNOME desktop seems to be able to do for Qt-based applications.
"

Neither OpenOffice or Firefox are native GTK+ applications. They just have modifications to make them look like they are. Same way some KDE based distributions have generally made modifications to make them look like native Qt apps.

One simply uses qtcurve or similar for which the same theme is available for both KDE and gtk. On the KDE desktop, select the same them for gtk applications as the KDE desktop theme, and you are set. An integrated desktop, gtk and qt applications side-by-side and indistinguishable as to which is which. No jaringly out-of-place applications.

http://liquidweather.net/howto/index.php?id=93
http://liquidweather.net/howto/assets/images/9714-1.png
(not that this is necessarily a good theme to select mind you, but it does illustrate the point)

AFAIK you cannot get close to doing this in GNOME. AFAIK in GNOME there is no ability to configure the Qt themes to make Qt applications match visually with the selected GNOME theme. You actually seem to agree with this.


That's easy, they have qt3-config and qt4-config for changing which theme the KDE / Qt applications are using for Gnome. So even then just like KDE with GTK+ apps, you can make Qt apps look more natural within Gnome.

Having said that ... in comparison on a Windows desktop, visual styles for applications are all over the shop, there is almost no consistency at all. So GNOME is not the only desktop which has this kind of problem.

This is the real point I am making I suppose ... which after all rather does make mincemeat of the point that the OP tried to imply (that there were no decent qt applications was the implication).


Agreed, Windows programs all decide themselves what they should look like with very little to keep things consistent. Which is why I have always found the "It doesn't look consistent" argument for Linux desktop environments to be utterly ridiculous.

Getting back into the Amiga, it was just as strange there, with MUI, Reaction, Class Action, etc. Indeed they had different frameworks on it too. Though I still haven't seen anything as cool as MUI on any other platform...

Reply Parent Score: 2