Linked by David Adams on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 16:36 UTC, submitted by Amy Bennett
Windows As of today, Microsoft won't allow manufacturers to install XP on new netbooks," says blogger Kevin Fogarty. "That doesn't mean corporate customers who special-order hardware with XP won't be able to get it, or even that its market share ( 60 percent!) will drop any time soon.... It just means XP has taken the first babystep toward obsolescence and the long (really long, considering its market share) slide down toward the pit of minor operating systems like the MacOS X (4.39 percent) , Java ME (.95 percent) and "Other" (which I think is an alternative spelling for "Linux" (.85 percent).
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Maybe an overdue step
by BlueofRainbow on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 17:22 UTC
BlueofRainbow
Member since:
2009-01-06

It's interesting that this comes on the same day as Windows 7 turns 1-year-old!

The netbook/netpad market which has been emerging over the last couple of years is a very different beast than the corporate market. The non-availability of Windows XP on new devices for end-users will be a blessing.

Apple has already taken a sizeable lead on this path for the next generation of user-devices with the iPad (netpad format) and the Air (netbook format). The user experience on these devices is polished and keeps the complexities of the OS out of the user's view. The funnelling of the Apps through the Apple iStore may become a blessing or a frustration depending on how attentive Apple will be to the wishes of its developer and user bases.

Having frequented OSNews for a while, I have come to the observation that, with the exception of the One-Laptop-Per-Child initiative, none of the major Linux distributions currently available have been conceived primarly for netbook/netpad devices. Even then, the OLPC native user-interface was received by many with mixed blessings mostly because it appeared so different than what has been the norm on a desktop. Maybe, there should have been a "One-Cell-Phone-Per-Child" initiative which would have introduced us to the user-interface in an indirect fashion.

By dis-allowing the Windows XP option for new netbook/netpad devices, Microsoft may actually help the development and viral dissemination of a Linux-based netbook/netpad focused user experience. This is my hope.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Maybe an overdue step
by darknexus on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 17:34 in reply to "Maybe an overdue step"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

I doubt this will help with Linux adoption on netbooks, given that Windows 7 runs fine on recent netbook hardware. Now if the OEMs would get some sense into their heads and ship netbooks with at least Home Premium instead of Starter...
If Linux is going to be adopted on devices like this, it'll come through Android or other highly custom oses, and that comes with one major flaw... on a netbook, most users expect to be able to run their customary apps. This isn't much of an issue on a tablet, since the different interface seems to open peoples' eyes up to the fact that it's a different kind of device, but netbooks are close enough to laptops that many people have the same expectations on what they need to run and how it should operate. Perhaps we'll see more Android or other Linux tablets coming out (I'm eagerly awaiting the day I can get my hands on a Samsung Galaxy Tab) but I suspect netbooks will remain pretty much as they are, especially seeing as how the promised ARM-based netbooks are so much vaporware. Netbooks will go to Windows 7 (this is already happening) while tablets will branch out.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Maybe an overdue step
by nt_jerkface on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 18:19 in reply to "RE: Maybe an overdue step"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

especially seeing as how the promised ARM-based netbooks are so much vaporware.


A big part of that has to do with Flash being delayed for ARM. The ARM cpus of the last few years have also been overhyped. The Cortex A9 is the real deal though.

I think it is interesting that MS is betting on ARM for WP7. The mobile world is certainly a weird one given that Intel plans on using a Linux distro to push their Atom cpus.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Maybe an overdue step
by Mellin on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 18:21 in reply to "RE: Maybe an overdue step"
Mellin Member since:
2005-07-06

i have only seen windows 7 starter edition on netbooks

Reply Parent Score: 2

bornagainenguin Member since:
2005-08-07

darknexus posted...

I doubt this will help with Linux adoption on netbooks, given that Windows 7 runs fine on recent netbook hardware.


Except those are no longer rightfully considered "netbooks" and are in fact tiny laptops. Go back and consider the specs of the first and second generation netbooks, as typified by the eeepc and compare them with what often gets released with Windows seven. Not even close is it?

--bornagainpenguin

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Maybe an overdue step
by Neolander on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 17:48 in reply to "Maybe an overdue step"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Having frequented OSNews for a while, I have come to the observation that, with the exception of the One-Laptop-Per-Child initiative, none of the major Linux distributions currently available have been conceived primarly for netbook/netpad devices.

What about Ubuntu Netbook Remix ? I've seen it at work, it's not bad for a netbook with limited screen estate... In my opinion, the problem is more of an application problem.

Maybe, there should have been a "One-Cell-Phone-Per-Child" initiative which would have introduced us to the user-interface in an indirect fashion.

*shivers* No, just no. Especially considering that childs' brains are much more sensitive to microwave than us. Not to mention the psychological aspects of the thing. Childs owning cellphones should not be encouraged in any way.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Maybe an overdue step
by Drumhellar on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 21:54 in reply to "RE: Maybe an overdue step"
Drumhellar Member since:
2005-07-12

Especially considering that childs' brains are much more sensitive to microwave than us.


The transmitters on cell phones are far, far to weak to affect soft tissues.

Microwaves are non-ionizing radiation. They are not powerful enough to remove electrons from atoms. This means that they do not change the structure of molecules. All they can do is add a little bit of heat, which is quickly removed by blood circulation.

There is no science that supports the idea that cell phones are at all dangerous (unless you're on the phone while driving, but then, you deserve to crash in to a pole), only ignorance of science and fear or new technologies, which is far more damaging to a child's mind.

Reply Parent Score: 2

BlueofRainbow Member since:
2009-01-06

I observed that my mention of a "One-Cell-Phone-Per-Child" concept forked into a discussion of the hazards (imaginary or real) of microwave radiation on mamals.

My comment was in an analogy of the approach taken by Apple with the iPad interface being essentially derived from the earlier introduced iPhone one. Essentially, had the OLPC initiative introduced the interface via a non-computing device, this could have lead to more positive acceptance. Familiarity with the interface would have been gained without a background of all the pre-conceptions we now have about using a computing device.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Maybe an overdue step
by vocivus on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 17:56 in reply to "Maybe an overdue step"
vocivus Member since:
2010-03-13

I don't think that disallowing XP on new netbooks is automatically a boon for Linux. I think this notion presupposes that Win7 is not a good candidate for a netbook, or at least that it isn't as good as WinXP.

In fact, Win7 runs pretty freakin' well on netbooks, and in my humble opinion it's actually much better than XP. I wouldn't put it on an eee701, but I would definitely opt for it over XP on anything current.

OTOH, I've had no end of frustration with getting Ubuntu working on systems that handled Win7 without a hitch. (GMA500 is a PITA).

I'm not an MS fanboy, but I don't see the market swarming to Linux when they can't get their XP.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Maybe an overdue step
by nt_jerkface on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 19:03 in reply to "RE: Maybe an overdue step"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

I don't think that disallowing XP on new netbooks is automatically a boon for Linux.


I don't think that even if Linux was popular on netbooks that it would change the inertia behind Windows. Best case scenario would be that people buy them as secondary devices for surfing and media playing. Even if 5% of the population bought them that would still not encourage ISVs to port over their major applications. Since they are only being bought for light use MS could also offer CE as an option.

What Linux fans need to do is give the desktop a break for a while. Let KDE and QT bake for a few years.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Maybe an overdue step
by BluenoseJake on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 17:59 in reply to "Maybe an overdue step"
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

Windows 7 runs pretty good on netbooks, and they are just going to get more powerful as time goes on, and will run 7 even more capably. We've already seen this with the debut of the dual core atom.

Linux had a chance in this market, but MS crushed it by keeping XP alive. That allowed them to get past Vista and build something capable of running on a netbook.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Maybe an overdue step
by darknexus on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 18:14 in reply to "RE: Maybe an overdue step"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

Keeping XP alive wasn't the clincher imho, it was the god awful Linux installations chosen by the major netbook OEMs. They were either horrifically out of date (Acer/Linpus), or completely broken (Asus/Xandros). What customers got as a result was a broken device that wouldn't do what they wanted it to do. That's what killed Linux. Dell's Ubuntu option was just too little, too late and it didn't help that Dell used the seriously out of date by then 8.04 LTS release that didn't even have Firefox 3. Linux might have worked if the OEMs hadn't turned it into a fiasco.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Maybe an overdue step
by Hans Otten on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 18:16 in reply to "RE: Maybe an overdue step"
Hans Otten Member since:
2009-12-24

Windows XP feels outdated indeed, once you have Windows 7 on other systems. My netbook (Acer Aspire One D250, which has the two core Atom N270 and 2 GB memory) runs fine. XP was fine too, but W7 is much more usable. Admitted, not as speedy as larger systems and with a limited display resolution, but I do not experience W7 to be slower than XP.

And I do not have any problem with older software once you know how to work around the bad habits of ancient software wanting write access to Program files for example, or install it as XP SP2 or SP3 software. Even some older drivers like DLPORTIO (I need that for parallel port I/O software) can be installed on the 32 bit version of Windows 7.

Windows 7 64 bit, with the exception of 32 bit drivers of course, has very little problems running 32 bit software. Windows 7 seems to run most older software I encounter. And it looks like that took a lot of effort by Microsoft, to fit the better security and features around misbehaving software. Preserving your investments is something Microsoft values.

I do not really like the license model. Hopelessly complicated with too many choice, from the crippled Starter, Home Premium, Professional to Ultimate (and Enterprise for volume licensing custumer.

Edited 2010-10-22 18:25 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Maybe an overdue step
by lemur2 on Sat 23rd Oct 2010 02:02 in reply to "RE: Maybe an overdue step"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Windows 7 runs pretty good on netbooks, and they are just going to get more powerful as time goes on, and will run 7 even more capably. We've already seen this with the debut of the dual core atom.

Linux had a chance in this market, but MS crushed it by keeping XP alive. That allowed them to get past Vista and build something capable of running on a netbook.


World-wide, Linux has 33% of netbook market share.

Just because you are not allowed to buy netbook Linux in your local market at consumer outlet stores does not mean that it does not have a market.

Edited 2010-10-23 02:07 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Maybe an overdue step
by lemur2 on Sat 23rd Oct 2010 02:04 in reply to "Maybe an overdue step"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Having frequented OSNews for a while, I have come to the observation that, with the exception of the One-Laptop-Per-Child initiative, none of the major Linux distributions currently available have been conceived primarly for netbook/netpad devices. Even then, the OLPC native user-interface was received by many with mixed blessings mostly because it appeared so different than what has been the norm on a desktop. Maybe, there should have been a "One-Cell-Phone-Per-Child" initiative which would have introduced us to the user-interface in an indirect fashion.

By dis-allowing the Windows XP option for new netbook/netpad devices, Microsoft may actually help the development and viral dissemination of a Linux-based netbook/netpad focused user experience. This is my hope.


http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2010/10/22/exploring-the-kde-plasma-netbo...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MeeGo

Enjoy.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Maybe an overdue step
by jbauer on Sat 23rd Oct 2010 09:14 in reply to "Maybe an overdue step"
jbauer Member since:
2005-07-06

By dis-allowing the Windows XP option for new netbook/netpad devices, Microsoft may actually help the development and viral dissemination of a Linux-based netbook/netpad focused user experience. This is my hope.


Sure, 'cause they're gonna be replacing it with Windows 3.1, a system that actually Linux might have a chance to beat.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Maybe an overdue step
by Nth_Man on Sat 23rd Oct 2010 11:53 in reply to "RE: Maybe an overdue step"
Nth_Man Member since:
2010-05-16

Sure, 'cause they're gonna be replacing it with Windows 3.1, a system that actually Linux might have a chance to beat.

You obviously have no idea of what you are talking about. :-(

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Maybe an overdue step
by bassbeast on Mon 25th Oct 2010 00:00 in reply to "RE: Maybe an overdue step"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Actually as much as the FOSS crowd would boo, I honestly think Win 3.x would be a good description of why Linux isn't setting markets on fire. With 3.x what you had was a shell on top of DOS, with Linux what you have is a DE on top of Bash. Just like how we had to drop into DOS to get things unborked, so to in Linux does one often need Bash for waaay too many things.

Just look at Apple: love them or hate them they have made the GUI and user experience job #1, and it shows. Same with Windows 7. In either OS one need NEVER touch the CLI, even for admin tasks, because everything is based on the GUI. With Linux not only were the distros chosen for netbooks lousy, but even if they'd have went with Ubuntu any problems equal crawling some forum and looking for a "fix" that ALWAYS starts with "open up bash and type" this big mess that often needs to be "tweaked" to work.

So I'd say the core problem is Linux is at its heart a server OS, being written by developers that know and love the CLI. This is completely the opposite of the consumer market, where most don't even know their OS HAS a CLI, much less has ANY desire to interact with it. Ultimately if Linux is to have ANY chance at the mainstream consumer market I believe that a desktop distro like Ubuntu needs to fork the kernel away from Linus and the server devs, institute a "pixel perfect" guideline similar to Apple, and demand CLI DIAF. Make the OS a desktop and desktop ONLY, and then it really has a shot.

But trying to force users to do things the Unix way will only end in fail, which is why the big box retailers and little shops like mine don't carry Linux.

Reply Parent Score: 1