Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 22:11 UTC, submitted by google_ninja
Internet Explorer "There, I said it. Microsoft has been bombarding the media with claims about how much better IE9 is than all the other browsers, more HTML5 and CSS3 compliant than any other browser that ever existing and ever will. It's the only browser that passes all the tests they made up. And, Microsoft has finally implemented the CSS3 selectors that were implemented by other browsers back in, what? 2003? Because Microsoft has updated IE to support CSS3 selectors and rounded corners, they want us to believe that somehow IE9 magically supports the whole slew of CSS3 visual styling. I'm afraid it doesn't. As a matter of fact, IE9's support for CSS3 visual styling is so poor that the results are shocking."
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RE: End of days
by deathshadow on Sat 23rd Oct 2010 14:18 UTC in reply to "End of days"
Member since:

Feels strange, does it not?

It's very easy nowadays to sit around bashing IE, especially IE6. Take that "IE 6 funeral" nonsense of just a few months back... Fact is, it's aged like milk and M$ disbanding the IE team and resting on it's laurels for half a decade put them squarely in last place...

Unless you count Amaya (and who the *** uses Amaya?) every release of IE from 4.0 to 6.0 were at the time of their release the most standards compliant browsers of their time -- Think on that! Lemme just say that again...

Every release of IE from 4.0 to 6.0 were at the time of their release the most standards compliant browsers of their time -- MIND BLOWING. It's easy to forget today just how far ahead of the curve IE 5.5 and 6 actually were... that's what killed off the competition in the first place and why with little or no extra effort I can usually make pages that work just fine all the way back to 5.5 with most every whizbang feature CSS 2.1 can deliver using a few simple bugfixes like inline-float, haslayout or expressions to recreate missing functionality like min/max-width/height.

When IE 5.5 and 6 were getting CSS 2 and 2.1 draft into something resembling working, Netscape was effectively running in place, gecko was a buggy unstable train wreck not useful for anything, firefox wasn't even a twinkle in a FLOSS fanboy's eye, Opera 4's alleged CSS 1 and 2 support had gaping holes in it that made IE 5.0 look complete... and that's before we talk all the stuff IE innovated.

Think back... First browser to even attempt to include parts of CSS2 Draft? IE 5.0. Ajax? IE 5.5! Properties that have been adopted into CSS3 like word-break? IE 5. @font-face? IE 5.5 with EOT support... Extensions? What do you think ActiveX controls are?!?

The really sad part is MOST of the problems with IE7 and lower are related to backwards compatibility BECAUSE IE implemented CSS2 DRAFT and people started deploying it on websites before it hit recommendations. Box model difference? Came after IE5 started implementing CSS width and height controls... We already had websites out there using it and forcing them to the new box model would have broken millions of sites; So they added the doctype trip since doctypes weren't part of the draft specification when IE 5 and 5.5 implemented the box model!

So what are we doing today? Developers everywhere starting to slap CSS3 up on their pages; a specification NOT EVEN OUT OF DRAFT YET... More things change, the more they stay the same. Right now the people making HTML5/CSS3 sites for real-world deployment are just setting us up for the exact same train wreck that the switch from IE5.x to IE6 was.

If anything, FF, Opera and Safari are to CSS3 as IE was to CSS2... and that's not necessarily a good thing for the future when/if we ever end up with a recommendation.

But as always, nobody seems to understand what words like "beta" or "draft" mean.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: End of days
by Neolander on Sat 23rd Oct 2010 17:18 in reply to "RE: End of days"
Neolander Member since:

Oh, but IE6 was probably quite good on its days (although it lacked tabs). The problem is that after that, there was no release or update of IE for ages.

Competition has moved on, and it took a lot of time for microsoft to realize it and even more time to react properly.

Maybe IE9 will put IE back on track, maybe not. Can't tell about standards supports, but in the beta, there are still unjustifiable lags when creating a tabs or at browser startup. However, there's sure already an impressive improvement compared with IE7-8 which could completely freeze for a few seconds before doing something on low-powered computers : now, it's around the second mark...

Edited 2010-10-23 17:22 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: End of days
by Kroc on Sat 23rd Oct 2010 21:00 in reply to "RE: End of days"
Kroc Member since:

Developers everywhere starting to slap CSS3 up on their pages;

Using vendor prefixes. It won't be quite so bad this time around. HTML5 is a different matter altogether.

The IE team's tune has definitely changed. I think it's Apple we should be worrying about. They're all for using vendor-specific codes.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: End of days
by google_ninja on Sun 24th Oct 2010 19:29 in reply to "RE: End of days"
google_ninja Member since:

The way the w3c works is that the criteria to go from "working draft" to "recommendation" is two 100% implementations. The way that most browsers work is they implement emerging standards as proprietary extensions (using the -webkit, -moz, -ms, -opera prefixes) until they are happy with the implementation, when they drop the prefix.

The problem that guy had was that MS was getting a lot of good press around CSS3/HTML5, even though IE9 has hands down the worst support out of all the browsers. What makes things worse is that IE users are either unwilling, or incapable of upgrading their browsers, as old versions just never seem to go away. Best case would be something like chrome being the lowest common denomenator, they don't even give their users the option to not upgrade, so as soon as they fix something, almost everyone is upgraded within a week. With IE it takes 5-7 years before the never version has the same level of saturation.

So, the reason this sucks is that once ie6 is finally gone, the lowest common denominator will be ie7. After that, it will be ie8. Everyone was hoping it would be different, but it looks like once ie8 goes away, it will be ie9.

Reply Parent Score: 2