Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 23rd Oct 2010 22:23 UTC
Windows "Windows 7 might be a massive commercial success and an undeniably rock solid piece of software, but Microsoft is apparently unwilling to rest on those soft and cozy laurels. Asked about the riskiest product bet the Redmond crew is currently developing, its fearless leader Steve Ballmer took no time in answering 'the next release of Windows'." Also of note in this same video interview thing: Ballmer states that Silverlight is now pretty much strictly a client, non-cross platform thing, while explicitly stating that when it comes to doing something universal, "the world's gone HTML5".
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RE: Risky?
by kaiwai on Sun 24th Oct 2010 01:03 UTC in reply to "Risky?"
kaiwai
Member since:
2005-07-06

You know, he could have said that about Vista, so it doesn't mean much. Longhorn was risky, and nothing came of it.

We have to be careful reading anything into Ballmer's remarks.


Nothing came of it? Windows Vista served as the foundation for Windows 7 and Windows 2008 R2, two of Microsoft's most successful products in recent years. If it weren't for the changes made in Windows Vista such as the introduction of WDDM, DirectX 10, Media Foundation (to replace the spaghetti of competing decrepit API's), kernel scalability improvements and so forth Windows 7 would have become another Windows XP falling further behind its competition.

Windows Vista if viewed from an objective stand point established a new foundation on which future Windows will be built. When we are at Windows 9 maybe then people can be a little more intellectually honest and accept that maybe Windows Vista was necessary to bring about the big changes needed to push Windows ahead. Windows Vista was to Windows what Mac OS X 10.0 was to Mac OS X - a starting point upon which better things could be built.

Edited 2010-10-24 01:08 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE[2]: Risky?
by Elv13 on Sun 24th Oct 2010 04:30 in reply to "RE: Risky?"
Elv13 Member since:
2006-06-12

Vista is not what Longhorn would have been. Vista is a failure born from the failure of Longhorn. A 2 years late and buggy OS without the nice Longhorn features such as WinFS or the real DWM with compiz like plugins On paper, Longhorn was better then 7 in term of features, but many of them never worked fine enough.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Risky?
by melgross on Sun 24th Oct 2010 15:08 in reply to "RE: Risky?"
melgross Member since:
2005-08-12

"You know, he could have said that about Vista, so it doesn't mean much. Longhorn was risky, and nothing came of it.

We have to be careful reading anything into Ballmer's remarks.


Nothing came of it? Windows Vista served as the foundation for Windows 7 and Windows 2008 R2, two of Microsoft's most successful products in recent years. If it weren't for the changes made in Windows Vista such as the introduction of WDDM, DirectX 10, Media Foundation (to replace the spaghetti of competing decrepit API's), kernel scalability improvements and so forth Windows 7 would have become another Windows XP falling further behind its competition.

Windows Vista if viewed from an objective stand point established a new foundation on which future Windows will be built. When we are at Windows 9 maybe then people can be a little more intellectually honest and accept that maybe Windows Vista was necessary to bring about the big changes needed to push Windows ahead. Windows Vista was to Windows what Mac OS X 10.0 was to Mac OS X - a starting point upon which better things could be built.
"

My short post was pretty simple, so I don't know how you misunderstood what I said. I didn't say that they didn't get anything out of Vista. I said:

"Longhorn was risky, and nothing came of it."

That being corrected, I have to say you're wrong. There was little really new about Vista. You don't remember anything about it? When Longhorn failed, they went back to Server 2003, I think it was, and used that, adding some features that were consumer oriented. they didn't take enough time to get it right, so it had a lot of problems. Remember that when Win 7 came out, Ballmer held up a box of it and said that Win 7 was; "Vista done right."

No great accomplishment there. Just treading water for 7 years.

Windows 8? Let's please talk about product numbers that matter.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Risky?
by Thom_Holwerda on Sun 24th Oct 2010 16:46 in reply to "RE[2]: Risky?"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

There was little really new about Vista.


Completely new graphics stack, written from scratch. Completely new audio stack, written from scratch. Completely new network stack, written from scratch. Completely new user interface. Boatloads of security-oriented features and large overhauls in the kernel. Completely new printing stack. Every major application was updated. New and very detailed power management features.

This is just a selection of new things compared to XP. Saying Vista was "nothing new" is nothing but trolling - outdated trolling, even.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Risky?
by Panajev on Mon 25th Oct 2010 09:01 in reply to "RE[2]: Risky?"
Panajev Member since:
2008-01-09

You don't remember anything about it? When Longhorn failed, they went back to Server 2003, I think it was, and used that, adding some features that were consumer oriented.


What are you talking about? Adding "some" features... It almost makes deeply changing lots of huge and key components of Windows (kernel, video stack, GPU oflloaded UI, audio stack, per application volume management, networking stack, firewall, MAC security policy, full ASLR support, etc...) sound so trivial ;) .

Edited 2010-10-25 09:02 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Risky?
by jtfolden on Sun 24th Oct 2010 21:12 in reply to "RE: Risky?"
jtfolden Member since:
2005-08-12

Windows Vista was to Windows what Mac OS X 10.0 was to Mac OS X - a starting point upon which better things could be built.


LOL While Vista may have had quite a few "improvements" it was nowhere near the jump as seen from Mac OS 9.x to Mac OS X (or Win9X to XP).

Indeed, it was a half-baked mess. It took Windows 7 to really nail it down as something usable.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[2]: Risky?
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Mon 25th Oct 2010 03:32 in reply to "RE: Risky?"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Good point, Vista was a crappy Beta of what turned into a decent product. The success of future products cannot retroactively make what was a bad product, good. It is never necessary for any company to release a crappy version of a product ahead of an actually decent version.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Risky?
by kaiwai on Mon 25th Oct 2010 04:21 in reply to "RE[2]: Risky?"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Good point, Vista was a crappy Beta of what turned into a decent product. The success of future products cannot retroactively make what was a bad product, good. It is never necessary for any company to release a crappy version of a product ahead of an actually decent version.


One could say the very same thing about Mozilla Foundation and the craptastic releases of Mozilla suite - it formed the foundation for Firefox, Thunderbird, Lightening, Songbird and many other applications that use Mozilla core technology. Out of a crap piece of software came marketing leading software titles based off the foundations set by the initial crap release. I do understand from the consumer perspective Vista was a let down but if one views it from the perspective of being long term foundations for future products then it is a great move be it painful for all concerned.

Any sort of change that happens will never come smoothly; MacOS 9 to X was disruptive, I used to hear people complain about out MacOS 9 was faster, that MacOS X was a step back rather than a step forward. Now fast forward to today and Snow Leopard is rock solid and no one would ever think of going back to the bad old days of MacOS 9. Windows Vista wasn't as big change as MacOS 9 but it was a huge leap when you consider how disruptive it was for many people. Graphics drivers had to be re-written from the ground up again for WDDM, many applications simply didn't work because of the new stringent security, some device vendors stopped supporting their hardware altogether as to cash in and force people to upgrade their hardware. In terms of the scope of the change it was huge but like MacOS 9 to MacOS X, it laid the foundations for a great future.

It will be interesting though what Windows 8 has in store - if it means more stripping out of built in software, finishing off Media Foundation so it is a complete replacement for previous API's, better use of Direct2D/DirectWrite then Windows Vista will re-enforce itself as the grounding of future development that pulled Microsoft forward.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Risky?
by Panajev on Mon 25th Oct 2010 08:49 in reply to "RE: Risky?"
Panajev Member since:
2008-01-09

I fully agree on your Vista comments, I was one of those people with no Vista related problems even with pre-RC Vista. I only had 1 GB of RAM, 64 MB of VRAM for my trusty GeForce Go7x series, and a Core Duo CPU... Yet I was able to code with Visual Studio, Firefox, IE, VirtualPC 2007 running Windows Server 2003, and ISS running inside the guest OS all open at once ;) . I welcomed the more responsive GUI thanks to Aero and the per application volume manager, ... Windows 7 did bring the best Taskbar out there though... It is a clone of the dock partially, but it has improved on the Dock so it is time for OS X to catchup there.

I think we are being unfair to Lion though... The only Lion exclusive piece we saw was the Launchpad, all the Mac App Store stuff is Snow Leopard compatible too and will launch in a short while.

Let's not forget that Lion's rollout is 1 year, from the first time it was shown to it's release date OS X took 1 year too, but at the time they already showed us Aqua... that is true.
What is also true is the fact that it was safer to show Aqua then, with no fear of the competition catching up (which it did with Vista, technologically, several years later), than it would be showing big UI changes now... The technology in Widows 7 is far closer to what Apple has in their sleeves than it used to be IMHO.

Reply Parent Score: 2