Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 10th Nov 2010 23:31 UTC
In the News Wait, what - let me get this straight. A powerful politician, a politician who managed to bring even the largest companies to their knees, is on the side of reason in the copyright debate? Yes, Neelie Kroes, in her capacity as European Commissioner for Digital Agenda, has openly expressed her support for copyright reform. Her argumentation is incredibly lucid and clear, and pretty much echoes everything I've written about copyright here on OSNews.
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RE[2]: Heh
by _Nine_ on Fri 12th Nov 2010 05:51 UTC in reply to "RE: Heh"
_Nine_
Member since:
2010-10-13

Totally agree. The fact that a politician had that degree of insight at all is noteworthy; however, her speech greatly oversimplified a complex industry, and her arguments were supported mostly by idealism instead of hard facts about the alleged negative economic impact caused by the current copyright system.

Furthermore, you can sense the latent anti-corporation, socialist tendencies driving her view, which is not surprising for a French politician. How exactly does her proposal ensure artists' works are protected and that they are paid fairly? Who exactly will run this one, single entity? A big, bureaucratic EU agency of course, staffed with employees with 30-hour work weeks.

Reply Parent Score: -1

RE[3]: Heh
by Thom_Holwerda on Fri 12th Nov 2010 06:33 in reply to "RE[2]: Heh"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Furthermore, you can sense the latent anti-corporation, socialist tendencies driving her view, which is not surprising for a French politician.


Fail. Double fail.

She's not French.

She's not socialist.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: Heh
by _Nine_ on Sun 14th Nov 2010 07:15 in reply to "RE[3]: Heh"
_Nine_ Member since:
2010-10-13

Ah, got me on the French thing. Misread the part about the Forum taking place in France.

I didn't say she was socialist; I said you can sense socialist tendencies in her speech. So, one fail, but not a double-fail unless you can prove otherwise.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Heh
by vodoomoth on Fri 12th Nov 2010 13:10 in reply to "RE[2]: Heh"
vodoomoth Member since:
2010-03-30

however, her speech greatly oversimplified a complex industry, and her arguments were supported mostly by idealism instead of hard facts about the alleged negative economic impact caused by the current copyright system.

I don't know much about all of the copyright and/or patent systems to bring anything valuable to the discussion but I while reading the news item, I was hoping for a proposal that didn't come.

Furthermore, you can sense the latent anti-corporation, socialist tendencies driving her view, which is not surprising for a French politician.

What is wrong with being socialist? Are you one of those who were demonizing the American health-care reform? I asked myself why there were so many "mots français" (French words) in the speech, all the more since Thom mentioned her in one or two of the podcasts. She's Dutch, not French.
A big, bureaucratic EU agency of course, staffed with employees with 30-hour work weeks.

Are you a European citizen? I don't know what all politicians do but I can guarantee nobody works those hours in Europe. EXCEPT a limited number (36 exactly) of dockers and crane operators at the port of Marseille who literally hijacked the economy of the whole department before and during the long period of strikes related to the retirement age... Why? Because they want better "work conditions". Which begs the question "what are their current work conditions?" to which the answer makes any other worker in Europe want to reach for the torches and pitchforks against those "princes". Their conditions are beyond advantageous, they're insanely good to the point that I was shocked when I heard about them on the radio. These guys are so much better paid than the average worker: 18 hours a week, something beyond 3000€ a month not including premiums, retirement at an age that's years before the legal age, and 8 weeks off a year! And they were asking for 12h a week and a pay raise of 450€! These are the exact figures (google "liberation port marseille meilleur job du monde", btw "meilleur job du monde" means "best job in the world"...). I wondered why I even bothered to go through the hell that was my phd, spend six years teaching at a university, work a couple of years for a software publisher, cross the country over 1000 kms, all this to end up earning less than one third of their wages.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: Heh
by ndrw on Fri 12th Nov 2010 14:11 in reply to "RE[3]: Heh"
ndrw Member since:
2009-06-30

> What is wrong with being socialist?

There is nothing wrong with being a socialist as long as you do it with your own money. It equals to being an altruist and it's a very noble behavior indeed. But, I have yet to see a politician that falls into this category.

> I wondered why I even bothered to go through the hell
> that was my phd, spend six years teaching at a
> university, work a couple of years for a software
> publisher, cross the country over 1000 kms, all this
> to end up earning less than one third of their wages.

And that's a more realistic face of socialism - stealing money from you (in fact robbing you - if you're in doubt try not to pay your taxes) and giving them to guys like ones you've described. Of course, you'll get some 10% of your taxes back so you continue to be happy that the government takes care of all of us. Or maybe not, if the treasury runs out of money before your retirement.

Reply Parent Score: -1

RE[4]: Heh
by _Nine_ on Sun 14th Nov 2010 07:42 in reply to "RE[3]: Heh"
_Nine_ Member since:
2010-10-13


I don't know much about all of the copyright and/or patent systems to bring anything valuable to the discussion but I while reading the news item, I was hoping for a proposal that didn't come.

Well, at least you had the sense to read through the propaganda to see that there was no solution. Anyone can point out a problem and paint a pretty picture of the way things ought to be. However, without a solution, we're no closer to getting there.

What is wrong with being socialist? Are you one of those who were demonizing the American health-care reform? I asked myself why there were so many "mots français" (French words) in the speech, all the more since Thom mentioned her in one or two of the podcasts. She's Dutch, not French.

Yep, I should've figured she was Dutch given that Thom posted the story, but misread.

Demonizing the American health-care reform? No, but I did criticize it. Wrong solution, wrong time. What does "health-care reform" mean? There's nothing wrong with American health care. What was needed was insurance reform. And the government can start with Medicare reform as it is greatly abused.

Are you a European citizen?

No, American.

I don't know what all politicians do but I can guarantee nobody works those hours in Europe. EXCEPT a limited number (36 exactly) of dockers and crane operators at the port of Marseille who literally hijacked the economy of the whole department before and during the long period of strikes related to the retirement age... Why? Because they want better "work conditions". Which begs the question "what are their current work conditions?" to which the answer makes any other worker in Europe want to reach for the torches and pitchforks against those "princes". Their conditions are beyond advantageous, they're insanely good to the point that I was shocked when I heard about them on the radio. These guys are so much better paid than the average worker: 18 hours a week, something beyond 3000€ a month not including premiums, retirement at an age that's years before the legal age, and 8 weeks off a year! And they were asking for 12h a week and a pay raise of 450€! These are the exact figures (google "liberation port marseille meilleur job du monde", btw "meilleur job du monde" means "best job in the world"...). I wondered why I even bothered to go through the hell that was my phd, spend six years teaching at a university, work a couple of years for a software publisher, cross the country over 1000 kms, all this to end up earning less than one third of their wages.

Welcome to the problem of unionized labor. Labor unions were created to protect workers from bad working conditions. However, laws are in place now to protect workers. Unions are antiquated entities that are now about establishing wage and work guarantees and structuring benefits packages.

Reply Parent Score: 1