Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 16th Nov 2010 22:34 UTC
In the News As none other I know how problematic it is to discuss matters related to politics on the web. However, every now and then, there's no way around it, and this is one of those moments. There's this thing going on at airports in the US, and while many will see it as a separate issue, the body scanner issue, and the sad stories it has spawned, are symptoms of a far larger problem that is a direct threat to everything we've fought for during and since the Enlightenment.
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RE[2]: Bullshit
by Aragorn992 on Wed 17th Nov 2010 11:03 UTC in reply to "RE: Bullshit"
Aragorn992
Member since:
2007-05-27

The bullshit is that the terrorism is being perpetrated by our governments and they are treating us like chattle.

The last time a plane was blown up was over Scotland 1988 and most of these recent "caught bombers" have been plants who have bypassed normal security systems escorted by Gov Agents in the first place.

This is nothing more than rape of privacy and $$ furtherment of US defense industry. If you want to know how real screening is done then fly in and out of Tel Aviv. But then the Israelis seem to know how to train their security instead of just hire the local Brute Squad and wasting money on tech that is useless.

If you're really paranoid - do the rest of us a favour and don't fn fly. Leave the rest of us to enjoy our freedoms and dignity.


I'm not paranoid. Paranoia is irrational and unless I am imagining things there was almost a few planes blown up over europe recently. These of course were due to imperfect security on cargo but the same principel applies. Ref:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,728180,00.html

If this isn't evidence enough for greater airport security (whether it be cargo or passengers) I don't know what is ;) It is simply a fact of life now that airport taxes and security checks will have to be increased.

You may well be right in that "terrorism is being perpetrated by our governments". That still doesn't change the fact that it is still very easy to smuggle a bomb on board a plane.

I was for greater airport security before these bombings these last few years, not because of them (or because of the government lies). Whether or not "terrorism is being perpetrated by our governments" is irrelevant. And stop preaching about freedoms and dignity blah blah blah. This is subjective nonsense. You've got the freedom not to fly and you can keep your dignity by staying at home. Don't I get the freedom to minimise my chance of having someone aboard my place who might want to blow it up?

Well perhaps segregated flights are the future. In one group, less secure checks and cheaper, in the other group more secure, time consuming and expensive ;)

Edited 2010-11-17 11:13 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Bullshit
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 17th Nov 2010 11:17 in reply to "RE[2]: Bullshit"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

If this isn't evidence enough for greater airport security (whether it be cargo or passengers) I don't know what is It is simply a fact of life now that airport taxes and security checks will have to be increased.


Greater airport security isn't achieved by these scanners (can't look through skin) and sexual assault groping. I can shove a bomb up my ass and short of the TSA sticking their hand in there, they won't be able to know.

Are you saying you have no trouble with TSA employees shoving their hands up your daughter's anus and vagina? I mean, all for security, right?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Bullshit
by Aragorn992 on Wed 17th Nov 2010 14:57 in reply to "RE[3]: Bullshit"
Aragorn992 Member since:
2007-05-27

"If this isn't evidence enough for greater airport security (whether it be cargo or passengers) I don't know what is It is simply a fact of life now that airport taxes and security checks will have to be increased.


Greater airport security isn't achieved by these scanners (can't look through skin) and sexual assault groping. I can shove a bomb up my ass and short of the TSA sticking their hand in there, they won't be able to know.

Are you saying you have no trouble with TSA employees shoving their hands up your daughter's anus and vagina? I mean, all for security, right?
"

But sticking a bomb up your ass is indeed more difficult than if you hid it in your underwear. Thus, it will statistically reduce the number of successful attempts - or so the theory goes.

The point is that none of these methods are 100% foolproof, nor will they ever be. However, there are in the world today - plenty of skilled and highly motivated individuals who want to blow planes up. And we have lots of evidence to show that they're beating the current security methods (e.g. my link). Now I'm not saying increased security (and obviously these scanners have problems as well) will stop all of these attempts, it won't, but it will minimise the possibility by making the act more difficult to perform.

Of course your last point is extreme (and probably slightly unrealistic to what is _actually_ happening), and of course I would have a problem with that. But then it would still be my decision to book her on the flight and take her to the airport. If people really would have a problem with this then they will simply avoid flight but those who would continue to fly would at least be happy that such stringent security has been applied and the chance of (for example) bomb getting on has been minimised.

Obviously it comes down to a balance between security and as people have said "dignity"/rights/etc. I just think the balance is too light on the security side - that doesn't mean I'm advocating the other extreme though. It simply means id put up with more pervasive scanning and more thorough physical security checks.

Edited 2010-11-17 15:02 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1