Linked by Howard Fosdick on Mon 13th Dec 2010 23:11 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless It's hard to predict the future because we humans prefer to think in terms of familiar paradigms. Even the most brilliant of our species are subject to this flaw. Now, Microsoft faces its turn. The owner of the operating system that likely runs your personal computer, the company that achieved monopoly with Windows and ducked the Department of Justice's scythe to keep it, faces a midlife crisis as the world goes gaga over portable consumer devices. This is the story of what's happening to Microsoft in the handheld operating system markets -- and how it parallels the earlier, similar journeys of IBM Corporation and Digital Equipment Corporation. Can Microsoft achieve dominance on mobile devices?
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RE[5]: Comment by Neolander
by oiaohm on Tue 14th Dec 2010 10:55 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Neolander"
oiaohm
Member since:
2009-05-30

OpenOffice has the best compatibility with Office which the open-source world has to offer, but it's not perfect. Complex documents may or may not work. For a home user or a student like me it's okay, but on a larger scale it's really not okay.

Always been wrong Go-oo fork off openoffice has always been higher in compatibility. These days libreoffice has taken over that location. This is basically someone trolling because they don't really know what is out there.

Apart from that, there's also a problem of intrinsic software qualities. Oo's UI is obscure in places, they cloned office 2000 and it was not the best UI microsoft has ever done to say the least. Impress is okay for light use, but Writer makes some simple things very complicated (ex : OO formulas vs MathType, paragraph numbering...), and let's not even talk about Calc vs Excel.[\q]

Again wrong. OpenOffice UI design predated MS Office. Even predates Windows 3.11 goes back before MS even made there first Office or Works programs. If anyone cloned anyone it was the other way over. Big problem is it should have been revamped in a lot of places in the year 2000 when it was released open source.

Paragraph numbering is more stable in OpenOffice than MS Office. Once set right it stays right.

Major performance issues have been repaired in Calc with libreoffice as well as Excel formula importing. Again this is a legacy code issue. Internal of Calc being single threaded in many places causing major bottle necks.

[q] Finally, there's plug-in compatibility. Office has some very interesting add-ons like XLSTAT, which are obviously not compatible with OpenOffice.


Again it comes down to what you are doing with XLSTAT. There are a lot of cases same result as XLSTAT can be got with alfresco extensions and other solutions. Most of the extensions for Excel are not unique there are other ways of getting the same result.

Windows is yet another issue. There are two problems here : hardware and software.

Since there are no standard interfaces to hardware anymore, modern hardware requires drivers. Drivers are made by the manufacturer and OS-specific, which means that Linux is often doomed to using either crappy proprietary drivers (as they don't matter in terms of market share, the HW manufacturer does not pay attention to what it codes) or second-class community drivers made from reverse engineering, which are often coming late at the party, unstable, or poor in some areas (3D acceleration, power management).


Play the hardware card. Funny Linux has drivers for ATI cards that are not even released yet. No way those drivers could have come from reversing.

This is not uncommon these days. To see specs being released to Linux first. Some of the arm hardware out there only has Linux drivers that is the end of it. Hardware card only applies if you are playing x86 and even then it reducing.

And then, there's software. Where are AutoCAD, Photoshop, After Effect for Linux ? There are sometimes (not always) equivalents, but they don't have the same UI, and often do not offer exactly the same functionality - which results in a productivity loss.

Reverse is also true. Linux has access to some software that is either not provide for windows or fails to run at speed under windows.

This is nothing more than a OS change issue. This is basically a nil issue. After Effects is really not the best tool out there.

Best tool in After Effects class out there is called Lightworks. That is currently being ported to Linux as well as becoming open source. Sorry Lightworks out features After Effects in everyway.

Autocad also has its equal and better replacements for Linux. Photoshop is really the only tricky one you listed without a replacement that can kick it but in every way. Big thing here is how many of your desktop users really would need Photoshop,

Basically get your information upto date before keeping on talking.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[6]: Comment by Neolander
by Neolander on Tue 14th Dec 2010 20:41 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Neolander"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Always been wrong Go-oo fork off openoffice has always been higher in compatibility. These days libreoffice has taken over that location. This is basically someone trolling because they don't really know what is out there.

I consider that go-oo and libreoffice are nothing more than a bunch of patch to OO at the moment and thus that these three products do not deserve to be considered as separate entities. When I say open office, it includes OO, go-oo, libreoffice, staroffice, and whatever else uses nearly the same codebase, as opposed to completely separate software like koffice or abiword. Sorry for the annoyance.

Again wrong. OpenOffice UI design predated MS Office. Even predates Windows 3.11 goes back before MS even made there first Office or Works programs. If anyone cloned anyone it was the other way over. Big problem is it should have been revamped in a lot of places in the year 2000 when it was released open source.

Okay, we agree there.

Paragraph numbering is more stable in OpenOffice than MS Office. Once set right it stays right.

And on OpenOffice, it's something whose English name I don't know which keeps screwing up.

Called in French "renvoi", the feature works this way : somewhere in your document, there is a list indexed by numbers. Somewhere else in your document, you want to refer to an item in that list. So you do insert->"renvoi", and then you can invoke the number associated to that item. If you modify the list later, the number is modified accordingly.

Believe it or not, saving the document, closing OO, and re-opening it is sometimes sufficient to mess this up.

(Not being a heavy Calc user myself, I cut the part about it. I know that Excel users find it frustrating, but not precisely why. Myself, I find both insufficient for my use cases)

Play the hardware card. Funny Linux has drivers for ATI cards that are not even released yet. No way those drivers could have come from reversing.

Yeah, and as far as I know they provide 2D acceleration only when they do work... Also, how are the drivers for actually released products for AMD going ?

This is not uncommon these days. To see specs being released to Linux first.

Of course. No need for a spec on windows, the drivers provided by the manufacturer of the hardware and the operating system generally do work. Nowadays, releasing specs mostly occur when a manufacturer realizes how crappy his linux drivers are and asks the community to do better if it can.

Some of the arm hardware out there only has Linux drivers that is the end of it. Hardware card only applies if you are playing x86 and even then it reducing.

No question, I'm talking about the desktop here. I know that Linux is much, much more powerful on anything embedded, but my original point was that Windows, the desktop/laptop OS, was here to stay for some time.

Reverse is also true. Linux has access to some software that is either not provide for windows or fails to run at speed under windows.

Indeed, but for desktop use, the best of linux software tends to have okay to good windows ports. On the other hand, it's generally not true the other way.

This is nothing more than a OS change issue. This is basically a nil issue. After Effects is really not the best tool out there.

Do you really think it's that simple ? I'm a heavy GIMP user, and the Photoshop interface horrifies me so much that I wouldn't touch it with a 10-feet pole. It works just as well the other way. But both software essentially do the same thing.

Switching to new software which you're not used to is really hard, and the harder it was to get used to your current software the harder it will be to switch to another one. This is a real problem, not something you can easily flag as a nil issue and just put under the carpet. Having to use other software makes the barrier to entry of alternative OSs a lot higher than if every software was cross-platform.

Best tool in After Effects class out there is called Lightworks. That is currently being ported to Linux as well as becoming open source. Sorry Lightworks out features After Effects in everyway.

Some say that photoshop beats gimp in every way. Yet anytime I use the path tool in photoshop it makes me want to run away screaming and anytime I use photoshop on a low-powered computer I have the feeling that said computer going to die when I just stroke a line with a 200px brush. I'm sure that a heavy AE user could explain how After Effect is better than Lightworks, based on his own experience of the softs...

Autocad also has its equal and better replacements for Linux. Photoshop is really the only tricky one you listed without a replacement that can kick it but in every way. Big thing here is how many of your desktop users really would need Photoshop,

In the future, desktop computers will become tools for work and heavy gaming, imo. Only professional software users and hardcore gamers would then remain heavy PC users.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: Comment by Neolander
by oiaohm on Tue 14th Dec 2010 21:23 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Neolander"
oiaohm Member since:
2009-05-30

"Always been wrong Go-oo fork off openoffice has always been higher in compatibility. These days libreoffice has taken over that location. This is basically someone trolling because they don't really know what is out there.

I consider that go-oo and libreoffice are nothing more than a bunch of patch to OO at the moment and thus that these three products do not deserve to be considered as separate entities. When I say open office, it includes OO, go-oo, libreoffice, staroffice, and whatever else uses nearly the same codebase, as opposed to completely separate software like koffice or abiword. Sorry for the annoyance.

libreoffice is a diverging code base. Lot of patches currently going into libreoffice cannot be upstreamed into OpenOffice. Thinking almost the complete core of Calc is complete different code in libreoffice because under inspecting it was completely shot.

As libreoffice process keeps on going more and more they will be split codebases.


Paragraph numbering is more stable in OpenOffice than MS Office. Once set right it stays right.

And on OpenOffice, it's something whose English name I don't know which keeps screwing up.

Called in French "renvoi", the feature works this way : somewhere in your document, there is a list indexed by numbers. Somewhere else in your document, you want to refer to an item in that list. So you do insert->"renvoi", and then you can invoke the number associated to that item. If you modify the list later, the number is modified accordingly.

Believe it or not, saving the document, closing OO, and re-opening it is sometimes sufficient to mess this up.
"
100 percent believe you. That would be OO from over 1 year ago. If its the particular bug I am thinking of that started in OO 3.0. Could be avoided by manually refreshing list before saving by stupidly doing a print view. Bug that I was glad to see the back off. No where near as bad as others MS Office has had. Ie insert too many pictures word locks up.

"(Not being a heavy Calc user myself, I cut the part about it. I know that Excel users find it frustrating, but not precisely why. Myself, I find both insufficient for my use cases)

Play the hardware card. Funny Linux has drivers for ATI cards that are not even released yet. No way those drivers could have come from reversing.

Yeah, and as far as I know they provide 2D acceleration only when they do work... Also, how are the drivers for actually released products for AMD going ?

2d works for all cards. 3d supported but not optimized for all cards including the ones not released www.phoronix.com starting work on optimization framework. Opengl stack still needs improvement to support more upto date versions of opengl. But everthing is progressing at quite a decent rate thinking how large the job is to produce video card drivers from nothing. Most video cards are just revisons on the older cards for that reason.

Yes video card drivers are almost all or nothing. Ie either you support all the cards that have existed or you have nothing.

This is not uncommon these days. To see specs being released to Linux first.

Of course. No need for a spec on windows, the drivers provided by the manufacturer of the hardware and the operating system generally do work. Nowadays, releasing specs mostly occur when a manufacturer realizes how crappy his linux drivers are and asks the community to do better if it can.
"
If fact what you just said is myth in most cases outside x86. Even intel processor are developed for Linux first since they are designed on Linux.

The good chip design software does not run on windows for most devices. For testing and compare that software basically requires the drivers first written for Linux to reduce on number of terminals the hardware developers need. Once the device works then it goes to general driver production is becoming more and more the pattern. So yes the hardware makers are providing more and more of the drivers directly. This also explains where about 60 percent of the 80 percent full time coders on Linux come from. Hardware developing companies.

"Some of the arm hardware out there only has Linux drivers that is the end of it. Hardware card only applies if you are playing x86 and even then it reducing.

No question, I'm talking about the desktop here. I know that Linux is much, much more powerful on anything embedded, but my original point was that Windows, the desktop/laptop OS, was here to stay for some time.
"
And the starting topic is about mobile phones. But arm wants desktop/laptop market share. We are going to see arm in desktop and laptop form factors. Force against the desktop/laptop form factor will keep on increasing.

"Reverse is also true. Linux has access to some software that is either not provide for windows or fails to run at speed under windows.

Indeed, but for desktop use, the best of linux software tends to have okay to good windows ports. On the other hand, it's generally not true the other way.

This is nothing more than a OS change issue. This is basically a nil issue. After Effects is really not the best tool out there.

Do you really think it's that simple ? I'm a heavy GIMP user, and the Photoshop interface horrifies me so much that I wouldn't touch it with a 10-feet pole. It works just as well the other way. But both software essentially do the same thing.
"
I am sorry to say at this stage photoshop has particular features gimp lacks. My replacement for AfterEffects has all its features plus more.


In the future, desktop computers will become tools for work and heavy gaming, imo. Only professional software users and hardcore gamers would then remain heavy PC users.

Sorry to say professional Software there is a lot that does not run on Windows. Photoshop is a small subset of professional users. And the software to complete with it is coming up.

Reply Parent Score: 1