Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 13th Dec 2010 19:27 UTC, submitted by lemur2
Mono Project For the most time, I've been firmly in the largest camp when it comes to the Mono debate - the 'I don't care'-camp. With patent lawsuits being hotter than Lady Gaga right now, that changed. For good reason, so it seems; while firmly in the 'ZOMG-MICROSOFT-IS-T3H-EVILL!1!!ONE!'-camp, The-Source.com investigated the five most popular Mono applications, and the conclusion is clear: all of them implement a lot of namespaces which are not covered by Microsoft's community promise thing.
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RE[3]: Poty
by michi on Tue 14th Dec 2010 12:46 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Poty"
michi
Member since:
2006-02-04

What's that supposed to solve? It's just running on top of a JVM and solves nothing in regard to patents.


First, there is a legal binding patent grant from Sun/Oracle: http://java.sun.com/javase/6/jdk-6u21-doc-license.txt

But that's not my point. My point is, if one chooses a platform based on technical aspects, there is no reason to use Mono. Scala is a much better language than C# oder F#. The JVM, especially the garbage collector and the Java class library (especially things like SoftReferences, NIO, java.util.concurrent.*) are much better than what .Net/Mono has to offer.

Edited 2010-12-14 12:47 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Poty
by dylansmrjones on Tue 14th Dec 2010 12:59 in reply to "RE[3]: Poty"
dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

First, there is a legal binding patent grant from Sun/Oracle: http://java.sun.com/javase/6/jdk-6u21-doc-license.txt


This does not protect you at all as a developer using Java. It only protects you if you are implementing a functionality/interface-perfect clone of the JVM. It is unrelated to the languages in question and is of no use as an ordinary developer. Oracle has not promised not to sue users of Oracle JDK or OpenJDK. They have only promised not to sue implementors of Oracle SDK to the extent the implementation is fully correct.

As such you are no more safe using Java, Scala (on top of a JVM, similar to the status of C# in .NET/mono), python, ruby, perl, Open Object REXX and Commodore BASIC.

For what it's worth you are just as safe with mono as you are with gtkmm, QT or BeOS-api (Haiku and to some extent also Syllable). C++ or C are no safer in this regard. Languages are irrelevant. The promises are merely in regard to implementations of specific VMs and their associated Class Hierachies.

Some might say you are safer with mono and JVM-clones than with C and C++ frameworks because neither Microsoft nor Oracle have promised not to sue users of such frameworks ;) Considering the behaviour of Oracle their promise not to sue is worthless. Just look at Google.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: Poty
by michi on Tue 14th Dec 2010 14:11 in reply to "RE[4]: Poty"
michi Member since:
2006-02-04

This does not protect you at all as a developer using Java. It only protects you if you are implementing a functionality/interface-perfect clone of the JVM. It is unrelated to the languages in question and is of no use as an ordinary developer. Oracle has not promised not to sue users of Oracle JDK or OpenJDK. They have only promised not to sue implementors of Oracle SDK to the extent the implementation is fully correct.


It does protect me as a Java developer because the Java patent grant protects the OpenJDK which is under GPL + classpath exception. So there will always be a open source Java which cannot be sued by Oracle. This is just not true for Mono.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Poty
by dylansmrjones on Tue 14th Dec 2010 13:54 in reply to "RE[3]: Poty"
dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

But that's not my point. My point is, if one chooses a platform based on technical aspects, there is no reason to use Mono. Scala is a much better language than C# oder F#. The JVM, especially the garbage collector and the Java class library (especially things like SoftReferences, NIO, java.util.concurrent.*) are much better than what .Net/Mono has to offer.


Is that your personal opinion or do you have some facts to back up your statement? Personally I prefer Java over C# and Borland C++, but this has nothing to do with the VM in question, nor anything technical, but is simply a better of what I'm accustomed to. OTOH, I prefer Syllable/Haiku API (C++) over Java, and Object Pascal over Syllable/Haiku API. Not at all objective but simply a matter of taste. I don't find Scala to be anything special, but perhaps I'm just showing my age...

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: Poty
by michi on Tue 14th Dec 2010 14:09 in reply to "RE[4]: Poty"
michi Member since:
2006-02-04

Is that your personal opinion or do you have some facts to back up your statement? Personally I prefer Java over C# and Borland C++, but this has nothing to do with the VM in question, nor anything technical, but is simply a better of what I'm accustomed to. OTOH, I prefer Syllable/Haiku API (C++) over Java, and Object Pascal over Syllable/Haiku API. Not at all objective but simply a matter of taste. I don't find Scala to be anything special, but perhaps I'm just showing my age...


It is my personal opinion. It is based on my experience as a professional .Net and Java developer. The software at my company was initially written in .Net. We later ported it to Java. Thanks to SoftReferences, NIO and java.util.concurrent we could improve the performance and simplify the code at the same time. Swing is way better then Windows.Forms and personally I prefer it over WPF, which does not have fundamental things like MVC for tables etc.

Reply Parent Score: 1