Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 16th Feb 2011 23:02 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless "There's just one problem, though: the 'nine young investors' don't really exist - according to the last tweet on the @NokiaPlanB Twitter account, it was all a hoax perpetuated by 'one very bored engineer who really likes his iPhone'. Ouch."
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I like WP7
by JohnJJ on Thu 17th Feb 2011 08:18 UTC
Member since:

I'm a developer who started programming in Basic on my Amstrad CPC 464 when I was 10. Since that time I've been programming in QBasic on the PC, Pascal in various flavors, C, assembler (I read a few pages in the pentium opcode reference every night to work out optimal pipelining for different instructions). C++, and the big game changer Watcom C++ 10 with dos4gw and 32bit flat address space, which changed everything. Some Delphi (Pascal again), a tiny bit of VB, a little bit of Java, sadly lots of Javascript, ML in university (I know I should like functional programming I just can't get my head around it). Vertex and pixel shaders all the back to the first OpenGL extension, lots of obscure languages just for fun, and finally C# and C++/CLI.
Along the way I have created tons of libraries myself and used tons of different libraries/frameworks/apis, like Win32, MFC, QT (way back), Apache XML DOM, FreeImage, FreeType, OpenGL, DirectX, I also programmed to my Voodoo 3d board, and too many other libraries to mention.

That was quite a long intro, but the purpose was to show that I've been around the block, so when I claim, that for me personally, the .Net platform is by far the best environment I have ever worked in, it is not an uninformed opinion. In general I would say that my productivity doubled, simply because every library you could ever wish for exists for this platform and because they are so consistent. But what I love most about .Net, or CLR actually, is just that, it is a Common Language Runtime and I can code in C# or C++ as needed and mix and match as I please. I can integrate with IronPyhton or JScript for easy scripting support or start learning F# and it is all within the same well known platform.

There are very good reasons for liking .Net and even if you don't like Microsoft as a company you can't deny that they have the ultimate development platform. .Net even comes in a few different flavors for embedded programming, there is something for everyone.

On top of all that I current own an LG Optimus 7 and it is great. It runs like a champion and is just a supremely smooth enjoyable thing. I can't wait to get started developing for it and I bet that many many other .Net developer feel the same way. You can take all your skills and knowhow and utilize it almost directly for developing for WP7. The potential is huge.

So to conclude, I believe that Nokia have made an extremely good decision, they get an extremely capable platform and potentially the biggest developer crowd, how is that not a win??


Reply Score: 4

RE: I like WP7
by Lennie on Thu 17th Feb 2011 11:12 in reply to "I like WP7"
Lennie Member since:

What I don't understand is: why should I create code for just one platform ?

When I can use something like phonegap which runs on pretty much any mobile and I can use JS/CSS/HTML to build my app. I can upload it to all the appstores. And reuse a lot of that code on the server (nodejs) and on my website.

Why get stuck in just one environment ?

Let's say I make a small casual game.

I have a website where people can play it online which is ad supported, it has a few buttons for each mobile-device-environment where people can purchase a touchscreen-optimised version for their smartphone/other internet device (like ipad).

All I need to do is make use of the HTML5-cache-manifest and session- and localstorage and get approved by the appstore maintainer ones (1!) and updates are automatically downloaded from the same site where the game is running.

Facebook made the same decision for their app.

Edited 2011-02-17 11:31 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: I like WP7
by lucas_maximus on Thu 17th Feb 2011 11:28 in reply to "RE: I like WP7"
lucas_maximus Member since:

Why get stuck in just one environment ?

Because the environment is bloody good.

I had to go back to doing some PHP code for my personal website ... and boy did I miss using .NET and Visual Studio. I was pretty much ended up manually hacking with VIM on the box.

Even just doing HTML, CSS and JS is vastly easier than any other IDE I have ever used.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: I like WP7
by JohnJJ on Thu 17th Feb 2011 13:16 in reply to "RE: I like WP7"
JohnJJ Member since:

What I don't understand is: why should I create code for just one platform ?

I wasn't out to tell you what you should or shouldn't do. You can do exactly as you please and if your are happy with it, then good for you. It even looks like someone is working on making PhoneGap support WP7, so soon you'll have one extra platform to deploy to.

My problem is basically this: Someone on the internet is wrong! In this case it actually seems that most of the internet is wrong. All over the place I read misinformed articles, where people think that WP7 is WinMobile in disguise, or that MS is gonna usurp Nokia and take over it's mobile division, etc. ad nauseum.
If people bothered to inform themselves, they would know that WP7 is a brand spanking new platform, with absolutely no ties to WinMo (a fact that people are also comlaining about btw). And I really hope that MS will keep away from the hardware business, I even think that they should let different hardware manufactures produce x-boxes and just provide minimum specs and software.

As an old-school developer, then whole web thing doesn't really interest me, not that I don't do web development, but I just don't find the platform very interesting or satisfying, and no, HTML5 is not going to change that. When I can run C++ or C# in a browser, then I'll be happy, but dynamically typed languages (javascript and friends) pisses me off. This also means that very few web oriented companies, google, facebook, others, have my interest. Sure they solve interesting tasks like running 100.000+++ servers and probably do some fun algorithm stuff, but their focus is just too narrow.

Hardware really doesn't interest me at all, which also means that Apple, as the hardware company it is, doesn't interest me at all. They make nice products, but that is it.

I dislike many of the business decisions that MS makes as much as everybody else, but on the other hand I love them for being such a truly amazing software company. I absolutely love the work that they are doing a MS Research, it is amazing what they let them work on: AI, protein folding, compiler research, algorithms, just to name a few CS related things, but there is also a lot of quite esoteric stuff going on. It may not be in the name of science, but very few companies are doing anything like it.

I think I got side tracked there. Hmmm...


P.s. Since this is OSNews I just wanted to mention that I've tried other OSes than windows. I was a huge fan of OS/2 Warp. I have tried Linux many times, but it always ended in frustration (this was before Ubuntu, I hear things are better now). Of course I used dos back in the day and I also spent some time on old Macs (I need 2 mouse buttons!!!)

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: I like WP7
by segedunum on Thu 17th Feb 2011 14:09 in reply to "I like WP7"
segedunum Member since:

All you've told me there is that Nokia had to create a better platform for developers. They were doing it with Qt, but it was happening too slowly. Mind you, they're going to have to wait yet another year for this much vaunted platform to even appear and then wait until it gains some traction.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: I like WP7
by drahca on Thu 17th Feb 2011 14:34 in reply to "I like WP7"
drahca Member since:

So to conclude, I believe that Nokia have made an extremely good decision, they get an extremely capable platform and potentially the biggest developer crowd, how is that not a win??

I do not think anyone is arguing that the .Net platform is not a good platform. I program in Qt daily and while Qt is great C++ really isn't. QML however is great and I believe is great tool to build mobile phone applications with.

The future of phones is however commoditization. This will mean that the phones themselves will over time become commodities as PCs more or less are now. The added value will be in the software running on the phones and the services provided on the phone ecosystem. Apple understands this as can be seen on their relentless focus on their App store, iTunes etc.

Nokia did not just announce that they will ship phones with WM7, they actually deprecated their current platforms killing them and their application store instantly. This is something you should never openly announce until you have an actual shipping alternative and a migration path for developers to follow, as Qt was giving developers from Symbian to Meego. Also, the first WM7 phone will probably not come out until late 2011 or early 2012, leaving two whole years for Nokia to survive without a primary platform at all.

In the long term they are cutting costs and basically outsourcing their entire software development to Microsoft and their hardware production to China. This will have dire consequences for all the people working in Finland. They should have focused on retaining the R&D for software and hardware and the talented engineers in Finland. Nokia will become an empty shell of its former self. Every talented engineer will leave and seek opportunities elsewhere.

Also the Nokia management was the major factor in bringing Nokia into its current predicament. Is the management being reorganized at all? At least Nokia's lack of focus is being addressed. Hopefully they will not try to change platforms yet again in the future.

So how will Nokia earn money in the future? Will they get a big piece of the WP7/8/9 application store pie? "In Microsoft we trust" is an adage which has been proven false multiple times.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: I like WP7
by JohnJJ on Thu 17th Feb 2011 15:23 in reply to "RE: I like WP7"
JohnJJ Member since:

I do not think anyone is arguing that the .Net platform is not a good platform.

No, but plenty of people are arguing that WP7 is a bad choice, but I'm not sure that Nokia had other viable alternatives.

Symbian is apparently not a very attractive platform and it has failed to deliver a proper user experience.

MeeGo is still not ready for prime time and it is uncertain when it will be ready. Betting on it could be dangerous.

iOS is of course not an option.

Choosing Android would give them a popular platform, but they would be just as much at the mercy of Google as all the other Android vendors currently are. Also maybe they feel, as many people suggest, that it would make them just another Android company.

WP7 is new, but has already established itself as a good platform and with the announces that MS just made, which Nokia have surely known about, it looks to be competitive with iOs and Android, feature wise, before the end of the year.
So I find that Nokias choice makes perfect sense.

I do however agree that they could have handled the annoucement better. It looks like Symbian is still going to be the basis for the lower end phones, so scaring off developers is probably not a good idea.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE: I like WP7
by bfr99 on Thu 17th Feb 2011 15:02 in reply to "I like WP7"
bfr99 Member since:

You're not alone, I like Microsoft software in general. Perhaps its generational but I've been programming since the days of the IBM green card (HCF - was my favorite op code - Halt and Catch Fire). IMHO C# seems to me the most well designed practical modern language around. So I'll stick to C# with C for getting to the metal.

Reply Parent Score: 1