Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 7th Mar 2011 19:31 UTC, submitted by Debjit
Gnome I have to admit I've been struggling with this one for a while, most importantly because I haven't used GNOME 3 yet; I'm setting up my own little company right now, so time's a little short. As such, all I can do here is cover the arguments given - which, in my book, have both their strong as well as their weak points. Yes, GNOME 3 will not have buttons for minimising or maximising windows.
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Endless virtual desktops
by computrius on Tue 8th Mar 2011 13:51 UTC
computrius
Member since:
2006-03-26

So, an endless stream of virtual desktops is supposed to be better than a taskbar? When one window opens on top of another, now suddenly you cant minimize, you have to drag the window aside or move it to another virtual desktop? How about kde and gnome stop removing highly used features (desktop icons and maximize/minimize) just so they can be "edgy" and work on features that are -actually inovative-?

I used to like kde, but I cant even use kde4 anymore. It just seems retarted to me that they would limit the placement of icons and widgets to several draggable boxes, rather than just allowing users to put them directly on the desktop.

Now it looks like gnome is going the same way by removing the taskbar, maximize AND minimize. I guess we dont need usable. Just as long as the developers of these desktop environments can feel edgy.

Edited 2011-03-08 14:10 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Endless virtual desktops
by vodoomoth on Tue 8th Mar 2011 14:08 in reply to "Endless virtual desktops"
vodoomoth Member since:
2010-03-30

God, I know exactly what you mean. I have ranted about the same thing on the Opera forums just two days ago when I discovered that pinning a tab in version 11.xx now shrinks the tab's width to just the favicon and forces all pinned tabs to the left of the tab bar... which means that pinning a tab removes the page title from my sight but also messes with the order of tabs!

Devs (and designers? there are probably designers in these teams) seem to do just what they think is good because some user happened to whine about the other way.

At least with Gnome you can put the buttons back, although it would be totally useless for the minimize button. The Opera guys offer no way to keep the tab width the way it was in 10.xx so I had to revert to the last 10.xx version.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Endless virtual desktops
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 8th Mar 2011 14:15 in reply to "Endless virtual desktops"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Wholly agreed. I thought about this some more, and I honestly can't see this as a good idea.

I am a translator, and for my business I have to manage multiple windows all the time - Aero Snap takes care of the source and target text (snap target to the left, source to the right - yay 24" display!), but at the same time, I switch between loads of browser tabs (resources for translation), emails (to manage incoming jobs and read info on current ones), and possible reference material stuck in Word/PPT/Excel/etc. files. The idea of having to fiddle with unintuitive virtual desktops and activities and dragging just to switch between windows... Dear lord I get RSI just thinking about it.

This is going to be one hell of a clusterfcuk for those of us who actually do some goddamn *work* on our machines. I need a taskbar or dock - without it, quickly switching between windows is going to be impossible.

Edited 2011-03-08 14:15 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

I need a taskbar or dock - without it, quickly switching between windows is going to be impossible.


Uhm...Alt-tab?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Endless virtual desktops
by curts on Tue 8th Mar 2011 14:20 in reply to "Endless virtual desktops"
curts Member since:
2007-04-18

I confess I've never looked at KDE4, but if it puts icons into draggable boxes I probably won't like it. That was the one feature of Common Desktop Environment (CDE) I detested back when I was using Solaris 2.5.1. I was thrilled to switch to Gnome2 when I finally got to upgrade to Solaris 8. When I started using Linux with regularity, I was happy to continue using Gnome2.

From the description, Gnome3 will likely force me to look for a new window manager. I regularly use overlapping windows on multiple virtual desktops and iconify some windows, in part because I do not have the *luxury* of dual monitors (yes, that is still a luxury for some of us).

Reply Parent Score: 1

dnebdal Member since:
2008-08-27

Define "into draggable boxes"?
If you mean the CDE app drawers, the only other DE I've used with that was earlier versions of XFCE (understandable, since it started off inspired by CDE). KDE uses a fairly standard start menu + task bar.

It does however have an icons-in-boxes thing in that the desktop is just a container for plasma apps - such as a folder view (essentially a file manager window). In at least some versions, the default setup gave you one of those, in icon view mode, displaying your Desktop folder. And yes, you could drag it around.

Reply Parent Score: 2

phoenix Member since:
2005-07-11

I confess I've never looked at KDE4, but if it puts icons into draggable boxes I probably won't like it.


The default "desktop" in KDE4 is a plasma container that you can put any widgets into. This includes Folder View widget, which lets you create a draggable box that shows the contents of a specific folder. You can create as many of these as you need/want.

Or, you can switch the "type" of the "desktop" container to be "desktop", which just shows a single Folder View locked to show the ~/Desktop/ folder. Same as the way the "desktop" works in Windows.

IOW, you can have it whichever way you prefer.

Reply Parent Score: 3

torturedutopian Member since:
2010-04-24

Actually, you're mistaken regarding KDE & "draggable boxes". They didn't remove features but added many of them. (which is why some people prefer a minimalistic environment, which is reasonable as well).

There are actually several types of desktop you can select. By default, you have a plasma desktop with an applet that contains the content of the "desktop" directory (folderview applet). This way you can watch several different directories from your desktop and prevent problems like applets overlapping icons. But you can also use an ordinary desktop. Or a "grid desktop" & other kinds of desktops (6 types, each can have 8 kinds of backgrounds including dynamic ones, and as many applets as you want).

Edited 2011-03-08 18:36 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

computrius Member since:
2006-03-26

Yeah, it looks like there are a few things I missed there.

But overlapping icons seems to me to be a bit of a non-issue. Thats one of those things where "So dont do that" kind of applies. Anyone putting widgets on the desktop (like in windows 7) probably wouldnt do that to begin with.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Endless virtual desktops
by phoenix on Tue 8th Mar 2011 20:14 in reply to "Endless virtual desktops"
phoenix Member since:
2005-07-11

How about kde and gnome stop removing highly used features (desktop icons and maximize/minimize) just so they can be "edgy" and work on features that are -actually inovative-?


Min/Max buttons are still there in KDE (plasma shell), not sure what you are complaining about.

I used to like kde, but I cant even use kde4 anymore. It just seems retarted to me that they would limit the placement of icons and widgets to several draggable boxes, rather than just allowing users to put them directly on the desktop.


You can still do that, just change the type of Activity to Desktop, and voila! You have a "normal" desktop where you can only put icons.

Personally, I find the flexibility of the non-desktop version to be much nicer. I have multiple File View regions on my "desktop" so that I quickly access files in the folders I use the most often. Much nicer than "just a bunch of random icons".

Now it looks like gnome is going the same way by removing the taskbar, maximize AND minimize.


Stop blaming KDE for things that GNOME has done wrong. Especially since all the things you complain about are still available in KDE. Misplaced anger, perhaps?

Reply Parent Score: 3