Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 10th Mar 2011 12:59 UTC
Talk, Rumors, X Versus Y If you were, you know, living your lives, you've probably missed it, but old fires are burning brightly once again: there's somewhat of a falling-out going on between KDE and GNOME, with Canonical siding squarely with... KDE. The issue seems to revolve around GNOME's lack of collaboration, as explained by KDE's Aaron Seigo.
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Richard Dale
Member since:
2005-07-22

I don't think it's notifications - as far as I could tell it's about the little grey-scale icons in the panel that control stuff like volume, networking, user-switching, etc.


I read the discussion on the freedesktop list about 'appindicators' and understood it to be an attempt to separate the info that an app might want to send to a desktop shell about its current state, from how the desktop shell might present the data. So 'little grey-scale icons' as you describe could be one way of presenting the data, but the spec didn't mandate that.

The Gnome devs appeared to be saying that it would be impossible to separate the data sent by the app, from how it is presented. They said the freedesktop org spec couldn't possibly work, which might well be a reasonable opinion for all I know.

But surely now we have three actual implementations of 'little grey-scale icon things' or similar, it should be possible to objectively describe the technical issues, and evaluate the opinions that were expressed a year or two ago?

Reply Parent Score: 4

jamboarder Member since:
2009-02-16

The truth is we had then and even more now many many examples of applications that quite successfully separate data from presentation in the systray. The vast majority of these aren't new fandangled apps, but legacy apps that were easily updated to support the features made available by the spec. In fact for apps that weren't updated, all current implementations of the spec fall back to the old XEmbed behaviour - they behave as they always have. The actual implemenations of the spec (KDE, Unity and Cairo-Dock) demonstrate quite clearly that, not only can it be done but it works quite well.

Reply Parent Score: 4

Richard Dale Member since:
2005-07-22

The truth is we had then and even more now many many examples of applications that quite successfully separate data from presentation in the systray. The vast majority of these aren't new fandangled apps, but legacy apps that were easily updated to support the features made available by the spec. In fact for apps that weren't updated, all current implementations of the spec fall back to the old XEmbed behaviour - they behave as they always have. The actual implemenations of the spec (KDE, Unity and Cairo-Dock) demonstrate quite clearly that, not only can it be done but it works quite well.


Who do you mean by 'we' here - is that the KDE or Unity developers or the Gnome Shell ones?

There have only been complaints that people like Aaron Seigo and Mark Shuttleworth are being unreasonable, and I'm still not clear how the Gnome Shell handles this functionality. I don't understand why the Gnome Shell devs aren't explaining how their tech works, as that would appear to be the best way to resolve why they didn't go with the freedesktop spec.

Reply Parent Score: 3

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

[q]They said the freedesktop org spec couldn't possibly work, which might well be a reasonable opinion for all I know.[q/]

Since KDE and Unity is actually using it the spec obviously works. That's not saying it works in the context of the gnome-shell though but it would seem like a design problem to me if data and presentation can't be separated.

Reply Parent Score: 7