Linked by Oliver on Fri 11th Mar 2011 23:32 UTC
GNU, GPL, Open Source "Now that Linux is the most popular free Unix-like operating system, it shouldn't be a surprise that some projects have begun treating non-Linux operating systems as second-class citizens. This isn't out of contempt for the BSDs or OpenSolaris, it's just a matter of limited manpower: if almost all the users of the application have a Linux operating system and if all the core developers are using Linux themselves, it's difficult to keep supporting other operating systems. But sometimes the choice to leave out support for other operating systems is explicitly made, e.g. when the developers want to implement some innovative features that require functionality that is (at least for now) only available in the Linux kernel."
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danieldk
Member since:
2005-11-18

Soft updates are kludgy and complex. For this reason, soft updates will be removed in NetBSD 6.0:

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.os.netbsd.announce/399

Instead, NetBSD will provide FFS with journaling, very much like ext3.

Reply Parent Score: 2

Oliver Member since:
2006-07-15

Well, FUD isn't the answer. Softupdates aren't that complex and it's easy to get them checked with background fsck. In FBSD 9 there are even journaling softupdates, the best of both worlds.

But then, do you really consider those ext-hacks an alternative? Once in a while they have to be fcked due steady inconsistencies. This I call progress ... it's a hack as I said. And if FUD is really your base, just use gjournal in FreeBSD.

Reply Parent Score: 2

Phucked Member since:
2008-09-24

Well, FUD isn't the answer. Softupdates aren't that complex and it's easy to get them checked with background fsck. In FBSD 9 there are even journaling softupdates, the best of both worlds.

But then, do you really consider those ext-hacks an alternative? Once in a while they have to be fcked due steady inconsistencies. This I call progress ... it's a hack as I said. And if FUD is really your base, just use gjournal in FreeBSD.


Wow you went from defending FreeBSD to just trolling with this comment.

Reply Parent Score: 0

danieldk Member since:
2005-11-18

Oliver, this article counters your arguments pretty well:
https://lwn.net/Articles/339337/

Even within BSD projects, it is generally acknowledged that softupdates are complex (and again, NetBSD dropped it for that reason, too hard to debug).

Maybe you could make an actual case what is wrong with journaling as in ext3? It is a simple and elegant solution to a problem: asynchronous metadata writes make a filesystem faster, but are also more dangerous. So, you keep a log of updates synchronously, that you can replay in case of a crash. It is really a sane solution that is also used by nearly all databases.

A viable alternative are log filesystems or COW filesystems, but they are a new generation.

Reply Parent Score: 2

phoenix Member since:
2005-07-11

Soft updates are kludgy and complex. For this reason, soft updates will be removed in NetBSD 6.0:

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.os.netbsd.announce/399

Instead, NetBSD will provide FFS with journaling, very much like ext3.


Hrm, just because NetBSD devs can't figure out how to make SU work correctly, doesn't make it a kludge. ;) ;)

Afterall, the FreeBSD devs have added journalling to the SoftUpdates code without affecting compatibility with UFS2. Thus, you can now mount a UFS2 filesystem without SU, with SU, or with SU+J.

For those who don't want to muddle around with SU+J, there's always GEOM Journal that adds journalling to any block device (aka, journalling for every filesystem).

Reply Parent Score: 2