Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 14th Mar 2011 18:59 UTC
Talk, Rumors, X Versus Y And over the weekend, the saga regarding Canonical, GNOME, and KDE has continued. Lots of comments all over the web, some heated, some well-argued, some wholly indifferent. Most interestingly, Jeff Waugh and Dave Neary have elaborated on GNOME's position after the initial blog posts by Shuttleworth and Seigo, providing a more coherent look at GNOME's side of the story.
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RE: Duck and Cover
by drcouzelis on Mon 14th Mar 2011 20:57 UTC in reply to "Duck and Cover"
drcouzelis
Member since:
2010-01-11

This is not a compelling problem statement. No user ever had a problem because notifications didn’t use D-Bus.


I think you may have missed the point of this quote. Dave isn't talking about collaboration. Instead, he's talking about how to write a good specification, which starts with defining the problem statement.

Dave is saying, in a slightly humorous way, that "Notifications don't use D-Bus" is not a proper problem statement. I completely agree.

Did you understand what he wrote differently than I did?

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Duck and Cover
by _txf_ on Mon 14th Mar 2011 21:07 in reply to "RE: Duck and Cover"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

Dave is saying, in a slightly humorous way, that "Notifications don't use D-Bus" is not a proper problem statement. I completely agree.


Except that wasn't the problem and nobody ever said that it was. The problem was Xembed (which was unflexible and designed for a different era). The solution was to use dbus for ipc (would he rather people reimplement a new ipc just for systrays!?).

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Duck and Cover
by Kitty on Mon 14th Mar 2011 21:51 in reply to "RE[2]: Duck and Cover"
Kitty Member since:
2005-10-01

Gnome shell seems to have tackled the problem of notification and tray area from the functional point of view, not just the technical one.

Thus not "xembed is unflexible, a dbus protocol to signal application status would be better if coupled with a new tech for notify icons and menus"

But "why is an application putting an icon in tray? Is it sending a notification the user must interact with? is it a system-wide status signal and control point? What kind of actions would be possible in a transient notification, which should always be accessible? What about urgency level affecting the display?"

From this derived the basic mismatch you can read about in the discussion, with Gnome coders dubious about a pure transmission method that poses no ipothesis on the interaction on the receiving part, whereas they seemed to think the coupling important for the redesign of the whole.
And KDE devs stating that yes, the data was just being sent and totally decoupled from the presentation... so much that there's no indication whatsoever of what the user-facing application can or should do with tha data it receives.
Frankly, both aspects seem worthy of work to me, on different levels, but I'm sure it's a prerogative of the Gnome shell coders to deem that the tech proposal was not solving the UX design problems they were interested in wrt the tray - at least at the moment. And what should have they done with a tech they had no practical interest in, if not let it be until they could contribute with real case requirements?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Duck and Cover
by dneary on Tue 15th Mar 2011 10:41 in reply to "RE[2]: Duck and Cover"
dneary Member since:
2011-03-15

"Dave is saying, in a slightly humorous way, that "Notifications don't use D-Bus" is not a proper problem statement. I completely agree.


Except that wasn't the problem and nobody ever said that it was. The problem was Xembed (which was unflexible and designed for a different era). The solution was to use dbus for ipc (would he rather people reimplement a new ipc just for systrays!?).
"

The problem was "there are too many applications creating icons in the systray/creating custom panel applets, they all behave in slightly different & inconsistent ways, and there is no straightforward way for an application developer to indicate the state of his application across different desktop environments without redoing a bunch of work".

XEmbed is an implementation detail.

Cheers,
Dave.

Reply Parent Score: 1