The world's richest man talks about developing new drugs to combat AIDS, open-source software and why Microsoft's still cool after all these years. Gates: "We encourage everyone to develop in our environment. Free software's nothing new... There was an early browser, an early mail program. But as times moved on, it's been the commercial programs that get the support, get the richness."
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Member since:You install it, configure it and it just keeps running. The vast majority of times, you don't need support
LOL. Thats rich. You might as well paint "I have very little experience with the real world" on the wall with that statement.
I work for a large corporation also. We run some very large scale *nix software on the back-end and guess what, we have a dedicated *nix support group.
You put any piece of software in a production enviroment where hundreds of users access it and you will have support to deal with. I don't care WTF OS you run.
Member since:2005-07-06
wow, many assumptions to go arround 
first: I have been a Linux and windows admin for years and have worked at small and very large corparations.(as in fortune 50)
and no I am not the one with a closed mind, if i where to goto my CTO/PHB and say hey i want to replace some of our servers with Debian, he would look at me funny and close the door.
it does not work that way in the real world, prodcution systems must have support both inhouse and vender. sure i can build a linux desktop image and roll it out... then what? how many other techs can support it?
sure there is vender lock in all arround the IT world, its a fact of life, you have internal apps and external apps written over a period of years some started before linux was even feasiable.
these are not easily migrated, for anyone not just my shop,
and sure redhat with kickstart and lots of scripting is pretty cool, but i can do the same with windows slipstream and sysprep. i will not blindly put something in just "because".
(debians version of kickstart its name slips my mind sucks:) ) altho ubuntu has support now for kickstart
its all a matter of perspective, it am not a microsoft shill by any means, and i am not bashing Linux by any means either. i am just a little sick, that linux guys(for lack of a better term) on the net always assume linux is the best at everything and should be rolled out always in place of microsoft. which is not true.
I spend alot of my day in bash and zsh but I also
edit GPOs and write vbs and perl scripts. i do what my employer pays me to. admin windows and linux machines and have them work together.
why can't someone have the best of both worlds? linux servers some linux desktops and a windows AD with exchange? is that a crime... sheshh...
-Nex6
Member since:2005-06-29
"its all a matter of perspective, it am not a microsoft shill by any means, and i am not bashing Linux by any means either. i am just a little sick, that linux guys(for lack of a better term) on the net always assume linux is the best at everything and should be rolled out always in place of microsoft. which is not true. "
The way you say something can make it sound very different to others than yourself.
My part of the discussion wasn't about whether you yourself should use Linux, but whether it can be used in any setting Windows is in. I was simply pointing out that right now Linux is just as good for home and commercial use as Windows is with a few exceptions on both sides, which one works best simply depends on your training.
I was never challenging your use of Windows, what I was doing was trying to leave my own comments on statements you said which I didn't believe were accurate. I admit I did suggest that you could switch to Linux, but that's no worse than if I had suggested that a Linux user try Windows.
In that last sentence I quoted there is yet another example of what you think you are saying being different from what everyone else is reading. To me it sounds like you are saying that people who say Linux is just as good as MS Windows and can be used instead are liars. Sure, it isn't fair to say everyone should use Linux, but it is fair to say everyone can; distributions like SUSE are no more difficult to use than Windows, in fact I've found setting up networks with SUSE to be eaiser although it's multimedia support is a little disappointing.
It's no skin off my back whether you choose Windows or Linux, I myself have to use the first out of necessity and use the second out of preference.
I also recommend against anticipating zealous replies as you did in your original post, instead let your votes do the talking; however, use negative votes sparingly since the point of them is to reduce trolling, not vote down legit comments that you may disagree with. If you do this you will find future replies a little less defencive, people often want to have their side of the story heard without having to worry about being called a troll or zealot.
All in all I think this turned out well, you seem quite reasonable so I'm sure you won't take this the wrong way.
Member since:
2005-07-08
Quote: "with many internal windows apps and many which are based on windows and can not be replaced with linux versions."
Yes, and this is because they're all linked to closed and proprietary applications and formats. There's another name for it:
Vendor lock in
Quote: "and no, wine is not production level software."
No, it's not, I haven't heard anyone say it was.
Quote: "for them everything just works, becuase we do not have some mickey mouse high school level IT shop. everything is done correctly."
No - because the vast majority of them are bordering on computer illiterate. They are no better than trained monkeys - press this button, type this, click this, press enter and it all works. As soon as it stops working, that's when their true computer abilities show. Or should I say, don't show. Since I've worked on a few internal helpdesks for major companies, providing technical assistance to staff, I feel that I can confidently say what I'm saying.
Quote: "it is not a matter of "have you tryed xyz distro" thats something linux zelots who dont admin and who are not in a large production shops have no clue about"
And now I'll be insulting back to yourself - most Windows admins are very poor admins, with relatively poor IT skills. Those that admin Linux setups, usually have a Unix background, and are much more highly computer literate. And you'll find that a Unix admin gets a lot more money than their counterpart Windows admin. These are generalisations of course.
Quote: "support (who is going to support it, how is it going to be supported? infrastucture support?)"
Ah, see that's the beauty of open source. You install it, configure it and it just keeps running. The vast majority of times, you don't need support. That only exists for poorly designed systems like Microsoft Windows. If you don't believe me, have a look at uptimes for major webservers - you'll have to go to around $350 or so to find your first Windows box. The rest are all Unixes or variants.
Quote: "just jamming suse with nis, or openldap is a very poor"
I haven't used either of these technologies to be honest, but from what I've heard/read, they work, and they work reasonably well. Maybe not as good as AD, but they do work. I'm sure AD isn't perfect either.
Now be a good boy and go play with your Windows computers.
Dave