Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 6th Apr 2011 17:50 UTC, submitted by Cytor
Gnome The day is finally here, the day that the GNOME team releases GNOME 3.0, the first major revision of the GNOME project since 2002. Little of GNOME 2.x is left in GNOME 3.0, and as such, you could call it GNOME's KDE4. We're living in fortunate times, what, with two wildly divergent open source desktops.
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RE[7]: Sigh...
by Icaria on Thu 7th Apr 2011 10:02 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Sigh..."
Icaria
Member since:
2010-06-19

You have a very incorrect definition of the word radical.
And you haven't demonstrated that my usage was incorrect; you've merely defined radical, good for you.

or of the massive fundamental changes being attempted with Gnome Shell
Right. They're introducing hardware accelerated compositing... or was that Vista. They've bumped the toolkit up a notch... oh, wait, Vista. They've shaken up the main menu and added search... like Vista did. They've fucked with the directory hierarchy in an effort to bring more robust database-like functionality to the desktop, like Vista (and taken further with 7). They've made invasive changes to the way applications look and behave, Vista. They've made major changes to the configuration dialogues, like Vista. They only thing they've done which is particularly unique was shake up users' work flows but then Win 7 was hot on Vista's heels to do that, too.

...approach the changes in OS X...or Unity
You're taking the piss, right?

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[8]: Sigh...
by lucas_maximus on Thu 7th Apr 2011 10:32 in reply to "RE[7]: Sigh..."
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Seriously Windows works the same as it did back in 95.

The look is different and things have been reorganised but saying the UI experience is radically different is just ridiculous.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[9]: Sigh...
by Icaria on Thu 7th Apr 2011 11:50 in reply to "RE[8]: Sigh..."
Icaria Member since:
2010-06-19

When was the last time you use Win 95? Explorer not only looked completely different but behaved differently as well (spatial file management). The Control panel was a) a quarter of the size b) had no categorisation and c) launched external dialogue windows, as opposed to the ad hoc UIs that now replace the control panel about 1/2 the time. The start menu was recognisable as a menu, rather than being a multi-paned fixed-sized window w/ tree view abuse. With 7, even the taskbar is no longer recognisable, being about twice the size, having no text labels and little clear delineation of functionality. Ever since 95, every iteration has gotten more verbose, with more and more (supposedly) helpful text everywhere; you can't even replace a file any more w/o being presented with 3 paragraphs of text and links, links, hidden therein, which you need to find and click to progress. The once clearly defined titlebars, menubars, toolbars and statusbars have all been thrown in a blender and poured over your screen in an unpredictable manner, while Win 7 and 8 progressively depreciate them in favour of that monstrosity formally known as 'the ribbon'. Then you've got the NT gap, with whole concepts that didn't exist in Win 95, like permissions.

Windows 95 is worlds away from the current Windows desktop. And sadly, not always for the better.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[8]: Sigh...
by BluenoseJake on Thu 7th Apr 2011 11:47 in reply to "RE[7]: Sigh..."
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

"You have a very incorrect definition of the word radical.
And you haven't demonstrated that my usage was incorrect; you've merely defined radical, good for you.

or of the massive fundamental changes being attempted with Gnome Shell
Right. They're introducing hardware accelerated compositing... or was that Vista. They've bumped the toolkit up a notch... oh, wait, Vista. They've shaken up the main menu and added search... like Vista did. They've fucked with the directory hierarchy in an effort to bring more robust database-like functionality to the desktop, like Vista (and taken further with 7). They've made invasive changes to the way applications look and behave, Vista. They've made major changes to the configuration dialogues, like Vista. They only thing they've done which is particularly unique was shake up users' work flows but then Win 7 was hot on Vista's heels to do that, too.

...approach the changes in OS X...or Unity
You're taking the piss, right?
"

Most of that crap is under the hood, are you deliberately being obtuse? Changing the way the buttons look is not changing the way the entire desktop looks, changing some file dialogs is not fundamentally changing the way users interact with the OS. Adding desktop effects is not changing the way the desktop works. Hiding menus (especially when you can re-enable them so quickly, is not a fundamental change.

Replacing the menu and toolbar with the Ribbon, that is a fundamental change, and considering that the ribbon is only available in wordpad and paint, that's hardly a change in the way Windows works.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[9]: Sigh...
by Icaria on Thu 7th Apr 2011 12:17 in reply to "RE[8]: Sigh..."
Icaria Member since:
2010-06-19

Most of that crap is under the hood
With very real implications for users. If technical progress (for the sake of argument, lets call it that) never impacted the user experience, it'd be pretty pointless now, wouldn't it?

Changing the way the buttons look is not changing the way the entire desktop looks
a) this is composition b) changing the way a button looks can impact usability and c) MS haven't just changed the way buttons look, they've changed the way they behave, also. Noticed those bastard children of a button and a combobox littered throughout recent versions of Windows, have you? Or the toolbar buttons that randomly spawn menus?

Adding desktop effects is not changing the way the desktop works.
Who said anything about desktop effects? It's kind of telling that when someone mentions compositing, your mind turns to teh pretties. Live previews, proper screen magnification, being able to manipulate windows responsively. Pretty big fucking change from the days of windows failing to repaint correctly and the CPU spiking when dealing with reasonably simple geometry manipulation.

Hiding menus (especially when you can re-enable them so quickly, is not a fundamental change.
Yes, yes, yes and throwing one Jew in an oven does not a holocaust make. Again, composition. Lern2logic.

Replacing the menu and toolbar with the Ribbon, that is a fundamental change
No, it's not. The ribbon is just a notebook widget with misaligned toolbar items crammed into it. Usability nightmare, yes; fundamental change, no.

and considering that the ribbon is only available in wordpad and paint, that's hardly a change in the way Windows works
I give your reading comprehension a 3. Go back and read what I said.

Reply Parent Score: 1