Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 28th Apr 2011 20:55 UTC
Linux Yeah, it's the day of double-dippin' today. And, the contradiction couldn't be bigger. In one corner we have one of the oldest and most respected distributions, and in the other corner we have the sometimes controversial but immensely popular relative newcomer. Slackware 13.37 and Ubuntu 11.04 have been released.
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RE[4]: Wayland
by tuma324 on Thu 28th Apr 2011 23:18 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Wayland"
tuma324
Member since:
2010-04-09

I'm betting a week or two after Wayland can actually be used by non-Wayland programmers. ;) Would seem to kind of pointless to switch to a non-usable windowing system.


Perhaps a little misinformed?

How is it non-usable? You can run a nested X11 session on top of Wayland and have all your applications working. It does work with all the open source drivers (Intel, Nouveau, ATI/Radeon, etc.) and it allows you to run multiple X11 sessions for backwards compatibility.

It also makes good use of KMS, it doesn't have all the cruft and hacks that X11/Xorg does have, and it's lean and mean. That's far from pointless IMHO.

Edited 2011-04-28 23:23 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Wayland
by joekiser on Thu 28th Apr 2011 23:34 in reply to "RE[4]: Wayland"
joekiser Member since:
2005-06-30

How is it non-usable? You can run a nested X11 session on top of Wayland and have all your applications working. It does work with all the open source drivers (Intel, Nouveau, ATI/Radeon, etc.) and it allows you to run multiple X11 sessions for backwards compatibility.


On Linux.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: Wayland
by tuma324 on Thu 28th Apr 2011 23:49 in reply to "RE[5]: Wayland"
tuma324 Member since:
2010-04-09

"How is it non-usable? You can run a nested X11 session on top of Wayland and have all your applications working. It does work with all the open source drivers (Intel, Nouveau, ATI/Radeon, etc.) and it allows you to run multiple X11 sessions for backwards compatibility.


On Linux.
"

We're talking about Linux here (Ubuntu). Perhaps if BSD users want Wayland they should start working on implementing KMS first.

Edited 2011-04-28 23:50 UTC

Reply Parent Score: -1

RE[5]: Wayland
by Elv13 on Thu 28th Apr 2011 23:41 in reply to "RE[4]: Wayland"
Elv13 Member since:
2006-06-12

Because it does not work with all hardware
Because it is not released at all
Because it have not been tested enough
Because, as it's just barely useful hosting X session, it only add bloat to the current X
Because no toolkit support it correctly
Because support for essential protocols is non-existant even on paper
Because it's years away from being ready
Because Unity can't work with Wayland by design (compiz)

I could come up with some more, but its enough

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[6]: Wayland
by tuma324 on Fri 29th Apr 2011 03:52 in reply to "RE[5]: Wayland"
tuma324 Member since:
2010-04-09

Because it does not work with all hardware
Because it is not released at all
Because it have not been tested enough
Because, as it's just barely useful hosting X session, it only add bloat to the current X
Because no toolkit support it correctly
Because support for essential protocols is non-existant even on paper
Because it's years away from being ready
Because Unity can't work with Wayland by design (compiz)

I could come up with some more, but its enough


I believe you're trying to knock Wayland too much. Wayland is coming faster than you think.

Edited 2011-04-29 03:55 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

v RE[6]: Wayland
by tuma324 on Fri 29th Apr 2011 19:02 in reply to "RE[5]: Wayland"
RE[5]: Wayland
by WereCatf on Fri 29th Apr 2011 03:50 in reply to "RE[4]: Wayland"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

It does work with all the open source drivers (Intel, Nouveau, ATI/Radeon, etc.)


But not with any of the closed-source ones. That already is enough for it to be unusable for many a people.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Wayland
by tuma324 on Fri 29th Apr 2011 15:03 in reply to "RE[5]: Wayland"
tuma324 Member since:
2010-04-09

"It does work with all the open source drivers (Intel, Nouveau, ATI/Radeon, etc.)


But not with any of the closed-source ones. That already is enough for it to be unusable for many a people.
"

Sure but many people also prefer the open-source drivers with good 2d acceleration and good enough 3d acceleration, KMS, RANDR, and so on that the close-source drivers lack.

Edited 2011-04-29 15:08 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Wayland
by phoenix on Fri 29th Apr 2011 19:12 in reply to "RE[4]: Wayland"
phoenix Member since:
2005-07-11

How is it non-usable? You can run a nested X11 session on top of Wayland and have all your applications working.


Sooooo, you can run a replacement windowing system ... with your normal X11 windowing system on top ... and that's suddenly better than just running X11 by itself? How is adding extra layers "removing bloat"?

Until there are Wayland apps, toolkits, frameworks, etc, there's really no reason to make it available in Ubuntu as the default. Which is what the OP is about.

Sure, those who want to play with it can install it themselves. Those who want to develop for it can install it themselves.

But it should not be an option on the main Ubuntu install CD until it's a viable alternative to X11, including native app support.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Wayland
by tuma324 on Fri 29th Apr 2011 21:31 in reply to "RE[5]: Wayland"
tuma324 Member since:
2010-04-09

"How is it non-usable? You can run a nested X11 session on top of Wayland and have all your applications working.


Sooooo, you can run a replacement windowing system ... with your normal X11 windowing system on top ... and that's suddenly better than just running X11 by itself? How is adding extra layers "removing bloat"?

Until there are Wayland apps, toolkits, frameworks, etc, there's really no reason to make it available in Ubuntu as the default. Which is what the OP is about.

Sure, those who want to play with it can install it themselves. Those who want to develop for it can install it themselves.

But it should not be an option on the main Ubuntu install CD until it's a viable alternative to X11, including native app support.
"

You have no f--king clue of what you are talking about, just like the other idiots in this site.

Wayland does use KMS by default and there is no need to make any configuration to start the compositor. This alone simplifies all the work that Ubuntu has to make in order to automate and secure the booting of the Xorg process so that users won't end with a f--king terminal when they install Ubuntu for first time.

Because to this date a xorg.conf is still needed. Yes, in f--king 2011. And those who say that no xorg.conf is needed they need to learn their system more and stop talking out of their asses.

Wayland will help to avoid cases like this:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=284356
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1594122
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1586131
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1292427
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=358906
https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/13673
http://www.ubuntux.org/ubuntu-wont-boot
http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/newbie/92694-x-wont-start-ubuntu.h...
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21398281-X-wont-start-on-2-of-my-3...
http://askubuntu.com/questions/10078/x-wont-start-after-installing-...

Educate yourself before making lame comments like that.

Edited 2011-04-29 21:35 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1