Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 29th Apr 2011 22:06 UTC, submitted by sjvn
SuSE, openSUSE Attachmate now owns Novell and therefore, by extension, also owns SUSE and openSUSE. With Oracle currently doing everything in its power to thoroughly destroy what's left of Sun's open source commitments, scepticism abound about the future of SUSE, and more specifically of openSUSE. Attachmate's CEO has answered some questions about the future of SUSE and openSUSE, and as far as words go, it's looking good.
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RE[2]: As far as words go....
by gfolkert on Sat 30th Apr 2011 14:16 UTC in reply to "RE: As far as words go...."
gfolkert
Member since:
2008-12-15

Here is a quote I fully believe and completely backup:

Novell's Directory Services is a competitive product to Microsoft's Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at the playfield. -- Thane Walkup

I'm an NCE from the 2.x through 5.x years... Bindery was very good... NetWare v4.0 and 4.01 were complete and utter shiitake. I went through upgrades and nobody really understood a "directory service" about 4.10 they got it right. 4.11 was superior and it just went on from there. NetWare was by far the best File and Print services system at the time and GroupWise v5.5 turned out to be a far better e-mail system than Exchange ever was (and still it IMO... Exchange sucks in comparison). I just weep at the MSAD success, while NDS/eDir just laid down and fell over.

Its really STILL is a much better Directory Service, just that nobody uses it for anything more than an LDAP server on steroids now.

Oh well. lets move on. MSAD is shit, it has so many limitations "Per Forest" and "Per Tree" its not even funny. Collisions can and do still happen all the time. The replication between servers is shit (compared to eDir's method) and MSAD's replication is crap compared to slapd and slurpd.

Ok, so enough of MSAD being a crap... YUM, I love its taste... as long as I can wash it down with significant amounts of Dark Rum.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: As far as words go....
by Sabon on Sat 30th Apr 2011 16:59 in reply to "RE[2]: As far as words go...."
Sabon Member since:
2005-07-06

gfolkert - You are 100% correct.

I've had to use both heavily and MSs directory services are not anywhere near as good as Novells.

The problem with Novell is that they always assumed that the best technology would win and that everyone would play fair.

MS _can't_ play fair. When you don't have as good of a product you can't play nice and expect to win. Especially when your product isn't _anywhere_ near as good as the other companies (and I agree about it still not being anywhere near as good).

So what does MS do?

Lots of things. FUD of course but MS also plays to CEOs egos. I've met too many CEOs that believe that being able to hang around someone rich makes them feel a lot better. It's like having a trophy wife. Hey, if that guy can marry _that_ totally hot woman then he must be really great even though he isn't good looking.

That's how the place where I work moved from GroupWise to Outlook/Exchange and are moving all services from Novell to MS (it's literally on the timeline for 8 years - plus some things are moving to Linux - but not SUSE - from Novell).

Outlook/Exchange is horrible compared to GroupWise. It needs more servers and even doubling them is not enough to have Outlook clients "live". Instead most companies don't have Outlook in "live" mode like GroupWise runs with no problems. Instead they (and we) use cache mode. Pretty pathetic.

Don't get me started about pushing applications (totally different subject than email). With Novell when you tell apps to push you can have them push right now, that second, to as many computers as you want (OK, there are limits). With MS the app doesn't install right away. Instead it install anywhere from four to 24 hours later. And that is "normal". How pathetic.

I could go on and on and on and on and on about how MS is nowhere near as good as Novell. Lemmings will be lemmings though. It's like the merchant who convinces the king that only true royalty can see the material. Since the king doesn't want to appear to be of bad (non royal blood) he lies and says he can see the material and the man sells the king the material.

People talk about Steve Jobs "distortion field". What they don't understand is that Bill Gates has a bigger distortion field and they have no idea how he is serving them **** for years and they are eating it up like crazy thinking they are eating very good food.

Reply Parent Score: 3

pantheraleo Member since:
2007-03-07

What they don't understand is that Bill Gates has a bigger distortion field and they have no idea how he is serving them **** for years and they are eating it up like crazy thinking they are eating very good food.


In some cases Sabon, we are getting very good food. As a long time J2EE developer (more than 10 years) who has been working with .NET for the past year, I really have to say that Microsoft produces a far better product when it comes to the whole Web application stack that they provide (ASP.NET, IIS, Visual Studio.NET, SQL Server). The fact that it is all designed to work seamlessly together produces a platform that is more robust and less prone to weird problems than any Java stack I have worked with. I'm convinced most of the problems with Java come from cobbling together technologies from different vendors to achieve the same kind of functionality that Microsoft gives you in one seamless stack that is all designed to work together.

And as far as development environments go, Visual Studio.NET is a better product than any of the Java development environments available.

Obviously, I'm not trying to suggest Microsoft is perfect. But when it comes to development of enterprise level applications, well, I can only say I wish I had tried the MS stack sooner. I spend a lot less time pulling my hair out than I do with J2EE / Java EE.

Edited 2011-05-01 01:29 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

Have you ever used AD? We are currently using Netware 6.5 and AD and I could tear my own eyes out every time I have to touch the Netware box. Console One is a joke It's slow, creaky, and barely usable. Takes minutes to load on my quadcore system. AD users and computers loads almost instantly, and has never crashed on me, can't say the same of Console One.

The Novell Client for Windows is one of the buggiest pieces of shit I have ever seen.

Zenworks is a monster that is clunky and virtually different every version. It tries to do too many things, and ends up doing none well.

SIPS sucks as a name service, it's nonstandard, and seems to cause problems every other day.

Compared to eDirectory, AD is stable fast, and the administrative tools are built right into the OS, It uses DNS as a name service, so it is easily administered. GPOs are really nice, useful way to push policies, so useful, that Netware even supports them, instead of doing it itself.

The world has moved on to better things, maybe you should learn the new technologies, instead of lamenting a crappy product from a company that forgot how to compete.

Reply Parent Score: 2

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

I'd sure like to know why more of my AD policy doesn't actually take affect on the client nodes. The central AD policy provided a security template rule to not run removable media on insert yet there I was having to add a local GPO on each machine before they stopped auto-running removable media. I'm also still writing long login scripts to cover things that should simply be policy rules.. and heaven forbid I have WinXP and Win7 trying to run the same login script without presenting a nice big error to my user. I'm still having to manage Exchange separately from AD (changes in Exchange flowing into AD instead of changes in AD properly affecting Exchange).

I can't compare with Novell as the last time I worked with that was Netware prior to eDirectory becoming a separate product. I'd sure like to see MS-LDAP be a little more effective at what it claims to do though.

Reply Parent Score: 2

TemporalBeing Member since:
2007-08-22

The Novell Client for Windows is one of the buggiest pieces of shit I have ever seen.


Yes, Microsoft has always made sure of that though various changes in the underlying GSSAPI interfaces, etc. Novell could certainly win an Anti-trust suite against them on the matter if they ever tried. Sadly, they never have tried and Attachmate probably won't try either.

Reply Parent Score: 2