Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 29th Apr 2011 22:06 UTC, submitted by sjvn
SuSE, openSUSE Attachmate now owns Novell and therefore, by extension, also owns SUSE and openSUSE. With Oracle currently doing everything in its power to thoroughly destroy what's left of Sun's open source commitments, scepticism abound about the future of SUSE, and more specifically of openSUSE. Attachmate's CEO has answered some questions about the future of SUSE and openSUSE, and as far as words go, it's looking good.
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RE[7]: As far as words go....
by pantheraleo on Mon 2nd May 2011 06:03 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: As far as words go...."
pantheraleo
Member since:
2007-03-07

I knew you were just making stuff up, because Java is almost not being used any more and nobody is using ruby etc.


The number they have for Java is total BS, and any amount of research would prove it is obviously wrong (as would any understanding of how Java powered Web sites are set up). The reason it is total BS is because there is no way for you to tell that a Web Site is using Java. Unlike PHP, which typically can be discovered because Apache will report that it is running mod_php if you query it for what modules it has installed (a security hole btw, that server admins should disable, but most of them don't) most Java sites just report that they are running Apache HTTPD server because Apache proxies requests for dynamic content to a Java application server behind the scenes. So any attempt to tell how many Web Sites are using Java is completely flawed.

Here are some statistics that are not flawed however:

* Java is the #1 language on Sourceforge.
* IBM, Red Hat, Oracle, VMWare, and HP are all strongly behind Java.
* 100% of Fortune 1000 companies use Java.

And here are some current numbers from dice.com as far as the demand for various languages. From most demand to least demand:

Java: 15911 job listings
.NET: 9084 job listings
PHP: 2996 job listings
Python: 2447 job listings
Ruby: 1478 job listings
Coldfusion: 335 job listings.

Java is clearly the dominant platform. The only platform that is even on the radar as a potential threat is .NET.

Also, according to Simply Hired, demand for Java developers increased 10% between September of 2009, and January of 2011. A 10% increase in job demand (even though we went through the worst recession since the 1930s) would be a good trick to pull off for a language "that is hardly ever used anymore" as you put it. Demand for PHP jobs also increased 10%, which means that PHP made no gains on Java at all in that period.

.NET was stagnant and saw no net increase in job demand.

So yeah, I'm afraid I have to call that statistic you posted exactly what it is. BS. And if you read the disclaimer at the site you got it from, and if you knew how most Java application servers are invisible because they run behind an Apache instance acting as a proxy, you'd know why those statistics are BS.

Edited 2011-05-02 06:19 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

pantheraleo Member since:
2007-03-07

I would also point out that everything I said about why the Java number is BS also applies to why Ruby on Rails is under-represented. Because like Java, Ruby on Rails is typically configured to use an application server such as Mongrel that runs behinds an Apache instance. Once again, Apache proxies requests for dynamic content to the Mongrel server. Because of that, as with Java, it's impossible to tell that a site is running on Ruby on Rails.

This method of deployment is radically different than the method that PHP uses of embedding the PHP interpreter inside Apache.

Reply Parent Score: 1

Slambert666 Member since:
2008-10-30

"When it comes to web techs. PHP is Number 1. Java is Number 2. And .net is tail of the hunt. Both Java and PHP has lot of premade applications to get you going with.



Here are some statistics that are not flawed however:

* Java is the #1 language on Sourceforge.
* IBM, Red Hat, Oracle, VMWare, and HP are all strongly behind Java.
* 100% of Fortune 1000 companies use Java.

And here are some current numbers from dice.com as far as the demand for various languages. From most demand to least demand:

Java: 15911 job listings
.NET: 9084 job listings
PHP: 2996 job listings
Python: 2447 job listings
Ruby: 1478 job listings
Coldfusion: 335 job listings.

Java is clearly the dominant platform. The only platform that is even on the radar as a potential threat is .NET.
"

I was not aware that sourceforge is only used for creating publicly accessible websites.

Likewise IBM, Red Hat, Oracle, VMWare, and HP only business is to create publicly accessible websites.

What was being discussed was web technologies,and these days java in LOB applications is almost exclusively an intranet technology and is also disappearing there for new projects.

Java is however straddling a number of technology segments, like LOB, embedded and mobile and will of course hold out for a long time before it disappears completely, kind of like cobol.

Reply Parent Score: 1

pantheraleo Member since:
2007-03-07

What was being discussed was web technologies,and these days java in LOB applications is almost exclusively an intranet technology and is also disappearing there for new projects.


Ah. So that's why e-bay is powered by Java. And why IBM and Oracle's blogging sites are powered by Java. And why Google App Engine is built on Java. And why e-trade is built on Java. And why Twitter's back end is built on Java. And why a lot of open source software sites use the JIRA issue tracker, which is built on Java. And why Wells Fargo's online finance applications are built on Java. And why L.L Bean is built on Java. Because no one uses Java to build public Web sites anymore. I get it now.

and is also disappearing there for new projects.


Got a citation to back up that claim? I'm quite certain the reason Google spent millions of dollars to develop support for Java on Google App Engine is NOT because no one is writing new Web applications in Java. I'm also quite certain they didn't develop GWT because no one is writing new Web applications in Java.

You also completely failed to address my point about why attempts to determine how many Java Web applications are out there are flawed. Because unlike PHP, you usually can't probe a a Web site and find out that it is using Java.

Reply Parent Score: 1

pantheraleo Member since:
2007-03-07

What was being discussed was web technologies,and these days java in LOB applications is almost exclusively an intranet technology and is also disappearing there for new projects.



There is also something else you are overlooking, which is that we have hit the limits of Moore's law. The free ride that developers have been enjoying of faster CPUs has come to a halt. Intel has been warning developers that this was going to happen, and that developers were going to have to start writing their applications to be concurrent as we start adding more cores because of the fact that we can't make them go faster anymore. Within a few years, Intel will be producing desktop CPUs with 32 cores.

What are these massively concurrent applications going to be written in? Python? Ruby? PHP? Concurrency is notoriously difficult to do well in any of these languages.

Once again, enter Java. Several new functional programming languages, such as Clojure and Scala, have been gaining a lot of popularity in recent years, specifically because of their concurrency features (immutable data structures, software transactional memory, etc).

So again, your argument that "no one is using Java anymore" is flawed. Java has been well ahead of the concurrency curve for years, running and scaling well on systems that have thousands of cores. Python, Ruby, and PHP have a hell of a lot of catching up to do if they want to compete with Java in this new world where developers cannot rely on faster CPUs anymore, and are forced to deal with writing massively concurrent applications.

Edited 2011-05-03 14:57 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1