Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 6th May 2011 22:13 UTC
Apple We've had an immense hubbub about the delay in the source code release of Honeycomb, which led to a storm of critique being sent Google's way. Turns out there's another company withholding source code, and this time it's Apple. They have stopped releasing the LGPL source code for WebKit in iOS since iOS 4.3.0, released about 8 weeks ago. Turns out - this isn't the first time Apple has refused to release (L)GPL'd code. It took them six months to release the required GPL source code for iOS 4.1.
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RE[4]: Comment by molnarcs
by molnarcs on Sun 8th May 2011 09:14 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by molnarcs"
molnarcs
Member since:
2005-09-10

Thank you saynte. Yeah, that's exactly my problem - the two arguments do not fit. On one hand we have a claim that "Apple started with an open source project and created WebKit a complete open-source HTML5 rendering engine". That is a blatant lie - and this is not the first time this happens. Can't find the other quote, but I recall them saying that they "opensourced" it - while in fact WebKit (when released, basically KHTML + a few Apple patches) was already GPL, and Apple had no choice but to comply with its terms. One of the reasons I mention this that by now, among fanboys, it's a well known fact that Apple gave the world WebKit - which is total BS.

On the other hand, we have an announcement by Google about their own browser, every single bit written by Google employees that happens to use WebKit as its rendering engine - and as saynte points out (and as I hinted at in my first reply) WebKit is a library. Rendering engines can be swapped out in all modern browsers. Case in point is Google Frame, that swaps out the rendering engine under IE, making it use the WebKit engine instead. Moreover, Google itself is a major contributor to WebKit, but they don't claim they have created it.

I hope this clarifies it for you. And for others who say Apple gives proper credit to KHTML and KDE - yeah, they do in documents only geeks read, but that doesn't get any press time. An open letter written by Apple's CEO does... The result? Apple giving Webkit to the world has become a well known "fact" among fans, and this is becoming harder and harder to dispute. I even heard people say that Google couldn't build Chrome without Apple. They certainly could. NOKIA built their maemo browser on KHTML before Apple forked it. Apple is just one among many contributors to Webkit, and certainly not its creator. And to get back to your google rant - again, that blog you link to is about Google's browser, which was written 100% Google, not WebKit (although they do say a big thanks to WebKit in their opening line).

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: Comment by molnarcs
by Large_Whale on Sun 8th May 2011 11:37 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by molnarcs"
Large_Whale Member since:
2011-05-07

Everyone knows the story. I just don't agree with your point of view. WebKit today is diversified from KHTML, based on years of development pushed first by Apple (with lots of other contributors coming after opening it), with completely new code, etc. It's not the good old KHTML anymore. And it was pushed (and probably still is) mainly by Apple. More so KHTML AFAIR still exists as a completely separate and autonomous engine, I think it may even still be developed, but I'm not sure ATM.

Second thing, Google sports WebKit for Chrome(ium) and that makes it a vital part of the browser. You know perfectly well it's the lungs and heart of Chrome(ium) and they won't drop it. They brag about how they wanted to write their own engine but used WebKit instead. Sure they don't have to use it, but they do and they will, so they incorporated the code in a way. If you stick to crediting KDE/KHTML for WebKit and everything related (which WebKit does), then why isn't Google crediting those guys anywhere? Where is the credit?

All I'm saying is that Apple/WebKit (think of them what you wish) at least credits the original team - the KDE guys who clearly made today's WebKit possible. Not in some internal docs, but on main website, first place you go. A simple thanks from Google would suffice, but it's not there. It's not anywhere.

Even worse - Google likes "WebKit" and they credit "WebKit". If today they have 1/3 of contributors, I guess the story is that Google doesn't need to credit KDE/Apple because Google thanks Google. For people who don't know the whole picture, in a year or so, it'll seem like Google indeed does thank Google for "making all this possible". I'd be afraid of that, not some Jobs usual propaganda who everyone is used to.

Edited 2011-05-08 11:38 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[6]: Comment by molnarcs
by molnarcs on Sun 8th May 2011 14:55 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by molnarcs"
molnarcs Member since:
2005-09-10

Hah, ok, I give up. I'm still kinda amazed of how you can spin this:

Our recent launch of Google Chrome simply would not have been possible were it not for the awesome WebKit rendering engine and the amazing team behind it. We want to take a moment to recognize their excellent work (past and present!) and talk about how we arrived at incorporating WebKit into Google Chrome. By the way, that excellent web inspector tool is actually a component of WebKit ;-)

into Google claiming to have created WebKit. The amazing team links to all contributors, including NOKIA, APPLE, the whole KHTML team, everybody. Yes, the list includes Google (in fact, Google now has the largest number of committers) - but they specifically mention the excellent work of the whole team past and present. I think that this announcement about Chrome is perfectly reasonable, and it's nowhere near the same thing as Apple's CEO claiming that Apple created and opensourced WebKit. Yet you are able to spin it in such a way to claim Google does the same. Nice!

Reply Parent Score: 5