Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 10th May 2011 21:04 UTC
Google Well, that was all rather much. Google just held its keynote speech thing during the opening of the company's I/O conference, and they announced some pretty spectacular stuff. Aside from Android 3.1 for tablets and Android Icecream Sandwich which will unify the tablet and phone versions of Android in Q4 in 2011, Google announced an internet-based music service. And a video service. And an Arduino-based accessory development kit. And Android@Home. And an alliance of device makers and carriers to bring timely Android updates to devices for a minimum of 18 months.
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Yup
by mrhasbean on Wed 11th May 2011 00:02 UTC
mrhasbean
Member since:
2006-04-03

It's really quite funny that supposedly educated and intelligent people can't see where this is all heading. Sadly by time those people have that "uh-oh" moment, it will be far too late to do anything about it...

Edited 2011-05-11 00:02 UTC

Reply Score: -1

RE: Yup
by Johann Chua on Wed 11th May 2011 00:28 in reply to "Yup"
Johann Chua Member since:
2005-07-22

You mean the exact same way Apple is going?

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE: Yup
by Morgan on Wed 11th May 2011 02:14 in reply to "Yup"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

I'm curious, are you perhaps referring to the increasing trend of living our digital lives "in the cloud"? If so, I do share some of those concerns.

Specifically, I was awed and amazed at Amazon's Cloud Drive/Player feature at first, as most of my digital music purchases come from them. It's quite convenient to have the music I purchase automatically available on my Android phone, my laptop, my HTPC, etc. Then, because I purchased an MP3 album and turned on the Cloud Drive feature, I was awarded 20GB of additional storage.

My first instinct was to upload all of my online-purchased music from Amazon, iTunes and eMusic, as well as freebies downloaded from the (mostly indie) artists' websites I visit. Then I got to thinking about it; I had blazed right through the service agreement without really reading it. I did some research and I found that Amazon not only reserves the right to peek at your files, they also give themselves permission to disclose the data to third parties.[1]

Now, all the music I intended to store on the service is legally purchased from the above sources, and I had no intention of uploading all of the files I have ripped from my CDs as the CDs themselves are my backup. But after reading that article and remembering that eMusic in particular does not use any metadata to show the files are legally obtained, I realized my only proof of purchase lay with the providers' log files. Now, let's say Amazon decides to forward a list of the music files in "my" storage area to the RIAA. What is to stop them from suing me for each and every file there that wasn't purchased from Amazon itself? After all, the burden of proof is on me, not them, as the courts have so elegantly shown. eMusic might, might help me out -- of the ones I listed, they are the only provider that maintains a list of your purchases so you can re-download at will -- but what about the rest of them?

My point with all that is, what if Google's music service is no different? Why should we trust them just because they say they won't be evil? They've already failed that test several times in the past, especially regarding user privacy. I for one don't trust them any more than I do Amazon.

That's not to say I won't give the service a test run, using some mp3s of my own work (I'm an amateur musician, though not a good one). Let the RIAA sue me for storing my own independent recordings; I'd love to see how that turns out!

Anyway, I do see the value in some of the other technology announced by Google; I'm particularly interested in the Arduino-based accessory stuff and I'd be willing to give that a run as well. For all my years of hardware tinkering I've never messed around with that family of microcontrollers. I think it would be fun.


[1] http://www.zdnet.com/blog/networking/no-privacy-on-amazon-8217s-clo...

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[2]: Yup
by WereCatf on Wed 11th May 2011 04:53 in reply to "RE: Yup"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Now, let's say Amazon decides to forward a list of the music files in "my" storage area to the RIAA. What is to stop them from suing me for each and every file there that wasn't purchased from Amazon itself? After all, the burden of proof is on me, not them, as the courts have so elegantly shown. eMusic might, might help me out -- of the ones I listed, they are the only provider that maintains a list of your purchases so you can re-download at will -- but what about the rest of them?


I really, really doubt the burden of proof is on you. I could just barely accept that that was true in the US, but in any of the more civilized countries the burden of proof would be on RIAA/similar entities.

Now, here comes the tricky part which I am 100% certain RIAA/similar entities will use to their advantage: if your files have lines like "Ripped and uploaded by X" in their metadata then it's quite obvious it wasn't obtained in an "authorized" way. And I can bet that most people don't realize that most of such files do have exactly that kind of metadata tags in them. They'll just upload those files without thinking more about it, then RIAA/et. al. will check the metadata provided by Google, and POOF: you've just provided them the evidence they need against you.

As far as I know the metadata tags that indicate the file was downloaded from torrent sites or similar is more than enough to sue over in the US, but.. how about the rest of the world? After all, the files you have in your "locker" are accessible only to you, you aren't sharing them with anyone, so illegal distribution does not ever come in to play. And in many European countries you cannot be sued just for having such files in your possession, only for distribution of them. I predict that these RIAA and alike entities will try to sue and they will obviously try lobbying hard to get laws changed, but I'd say people are generally safe from them for now as long as they don't distribute the files to anyone else.

[Disclaimer: I ain't a lawyer so do not f*cking take anything I say as legal counseling or advice.]

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE: Yup
by novad on Wed 11th May 2011 04:18 in reply to "Yup"
novad Member since:
2010-06-10

Well... I must be one of these "supposedly educated and intelligent people"... All in all I find these announcements rather positive.

These services, once again, tend to increase usability and quality of Googles products. It seems that all is built to interact with existing systems (also those from competitors) and to avoid Lock-in.

Maybe you could come down to the level of stupid people like me and also explain a bit your statement or was it simply an anti-Google rant?

Edited 2011-05-11 04:18 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Yup
by molnarcs on Wed 11th May 2011 08:41 in reply to "RE: Yup"
molnarcs Member since:
2005-09-10

Well... I must be one of these "supposedly educated and intelligent people"... All in all I find these announcements rather positive.

These services, once again, tend to increase usability and quality of Googles products. It seems that all is built to interact with existing systems (also those from competitors) and to avoid Lock-in.

Maybe you could come down to the level of stupid people like me and also explain a bit your statement or was it simply an anti-Google rant?

He won't explain anything to you or to anyone. He is our local hit & run troll. Posts shit, people respond with reasonable counter points, he ignores them. Posts the same shit in other news (any news related to Apple or Google). He's the worst type of Apple fanboy. See for example: http://www.osnews.com/thread?471309

Edited 2011-05-11 08:42 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE: Yup
by WereCatf on Wed 11th May 2011 10:52 in reply to "Yup"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

It's really quite funny that supposedly educated and intelligent people can't see where this is all heading. Sadly by time those people have that "uh-oh" moment, it will be far too late to do anything about it...


In the same direction as Apple?

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Yup
by Neolander on Wed 11th May 2011 15:56 in reply to "Yup"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Yeah, I know what you mean. This cloud thing scares me too. I hate the idea of relying on distant servers for accessing my music, my software, and in short my data. Of having a company own a large part of my life.

This is why I don't use iTunes, and when asked about DAP/Phones/whatever purchases, always suggest to buy UMS devices allowing software and data sideloading and backup. Unlike you. Strange, eh ?

No, if you want to accuse Thom of having some double standards, let's ask him why for some services being US-only is a fundamental defect which directly leads to failure in the long term, while for this Music Beta thing it's just "sad"...

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Yup
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 11th May 2011 16:00 in reply to "RE: Yup"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

No, if you want to accuse Thom of having some double standards, let's ask him why for some services being US-only is a fundamental defect which directly leads to failure in the long term, while for this Music Beta thing it's just "sad"...


*bangs head on desk*

Fcuk me, I'm going to need a bigger desk for this.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Yup
by Praxis on Wed 11th May 2011 17:27 in reply to "RE: Yup"
Praxis Member since:
2009-09-17

Yeah, I know what you mean. This cloud thing scares me too. I hate the idea of relying on distant servers for accessing my music, my software, and in short my data. Of having a company own a large part of my life.


I kinda feel the backlash against the cloud by some in the tech world is overstating things themselves. Should people put everything on someone elses servers and not store anything locally? Hell no, you should have local copies of everything. But as people start using more and more devices, storing a copy of everything on each machine just isn't feasible. Naturally the solution is a good ol' client/server system. Except people don't want to administer their own severs, even among those who have the ability not everyone wants to do it themselves.

Is it any surprise then that people go to amazon, google or soon apple to do it for them. And no matter how many outages or misteps these services have people will keep coming back to them, because for most people it will still be better than doing it themselves.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Yup
by ephracis on Wed 11th May 2011 17:42 in reply to "RE: Yup"
ephracis Member since:
2007-09-23

I love your thoughts on the music service.

I just recently released my own music player (http://www.stoffiplayer.com) where I have been thinking of doing the same thing Google is doing now.

I would love to hear about tips on how to beat them (or if I should integrate them).

What about:
* Not a company, but a non-profit organization, which donates all extra profit to charity
* Your data is encrypted and we cannot read it
* No ads... anywhere!
* Great tools for easy migration away from the service

Anything other suggestions?

:)

Reply Parent Score: 3