Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 26th May 2011 21:27 UTC, submitted by poundsmack
KDE "KDE has released a first beta of the upcoming 4.7 release of the Plasma Desktop and Netbook workspaces, the KDE Applications and the KDE Frameworks, which is planned for July 27, 2011. With API, dependency and feature freezes in place, the KDE team's focus is now on fixing bugs and further polishing new and old functionality."
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RE[5]: Good for KDE
by lemur2 on Fri 27th May 2011 02:26 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Good for KDE"
lemur2
Member since:
2007-02-17

but would it use the benefits of version 3 or 4 if the hardware supported it? Not requiring the latest and greatest is good (IE9 not on XP...bad) but not taking advantage of the latest and greatest when it is available is bad (IE9 on 7 using DirectWrite...good)


KDE is written primarily to work on Linux, but because of the hardware abstraction layers (Phonon and Solid) it can actually work on a number of platforms.

OpenGL support on Linux is only available up to OpenGL 2.0 or 2.1 for a lot of drivers. In many cases, the driver supports only a lower version of OpenGL than the hardware of the card does.

Here is the picture for one open source driver:

http://wiki.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature

Only the closed nVidia driver, AFAIK, supports OpenGL 4. OpenGL support on Windows is also very sporadic.

Using later features of OpenGL (i.e. OpenGL 3.x and OpenGL 4.x) in this context would only make it possible to have fancier effects. In other words, more bling.

Requiring only widely available features of earlier versions (i.e. mature parts) of OpenGL in this context means faster hardware acceleration of desktop rendering, working on a wider range of hardware including legacy hardware and mobiles, but less of the really fancy bling. Using less of the available GPU hardware resources for the desktop itself leaves more available for applications.

Which approach would you rather?

Edited 2011-05-27 02:36 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: Good for KDE
by hussam on Fri 27th May 2011 02:31 in reply to "RE[5]: Good for KDE"
hussam Member since:
2006-08-17

Only the closed nVidia driver, AFAIK, supports OpenGL 4. OpenGL support on Windows is also very sporadic.

You also need a new nvidia card for opengl 4.0
Even requiring opengl 3.0 for kwin will stop people with cards older than 8xxx series from using kwin with opengl compositing. I used to run a opengl 2.1 card and now I upgraded to a card that supports opengl 4.1

Edited 2011-05-27 02:35 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[7]: Good for KDE
by bouhko on Fri 27th May 2011 03:21 in reply to "RE[6]: Good for KDE"
bouhko Member since:
2010-06-24

I'm not even sure there are that many OpenGL 3/4 features that are of interest for a window manager. Most of the changes where targeted at games (shader branching, geometry shaders, etc...).

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: Good for KDE
by twitterfire on Fri 27th May 2011 08:32 in reply to "RE[5]: Good for KDE"
twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11

Using less of the available GPU hardware resources for the desktop itself leaves more available for applications.

Which approach would you rather?


That's not entirely true. Which GPU stressing apps are you using in Linux? All apps using OpenGL and running on Linux doesn't stress the GPU too much. And even if they do stress the GPU, running full screen makes the GPU use the resources only for that app and not for desktop drawing.

Even if you use the full capabilities in OpenGL 4, you won't consume much resources and even a lousy GPU such as GMA 950 would do the job. Windows 7 Aero use the full power of DirectX but it doesn't use very much GPU power. I think the same is true for Os X quartz.

As someone said in this thread, not using the latest and greatest when you can it's a waste. The only logical reason for KDE and Compiz to use OpenGL ES 2.0 would be to support Wayland.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[7]: Good for KDE
by lemur2 on Fri 27th May 2011 09:33 in reply to "RE[6]: Good for KDE"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

That's not entirely true. Which GPU stressing apps are you using in Linux? All apps using OpenGL and running on Linux doesn't stress the GPU too much. And even if they do stress the GPU, running full screen makes the GPU use the resources only for that app and not for desktop drawing.

Even if you use the full capabilities in OpenGL 4, you won't consume much resources and even a lousy GPU such as GMA 950 would do the job. Windows 7 Aero use the full power of DirectX but it doesn't use very much GPU power. I think the same is true for Os X quartz.

As someone said in this thread, not using the latest and greatest when you can it's a waste. The only logical reason for KDE and Compiz to use OpenGL ES 2.0 would be to support Wayland.


Turnig off the kwin compositing (or even the compiz compositing) definitely improves the OpenGL performance of applications.

The Cost Of Running Compiz
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=compiz_speed_tes...

Even when OpenGL games and benchmarks are running full-screen, in some configurations there still is a penalty imposed by Compiz. Compiz does not stop itself when a game or application is running full-screen even though you are not using any Compiz plug-ins or desktop effects and as such, indirect rendering is still being used.


Does Compiz Still Slow Down Your System?
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=compiz_2011_hits...

Those results from nearly one year ago showed that the open-source Intel and ATI Radeon drivers took an approximate 15% performance hit when Compiz was running rather than GNOME's Metacity when using Kernel mode-setting and DRI2. With the proprietary Catalyst driver there was little impact along with NVIDIA's binary driver, but there still was a performance penalty in some tests.

Since it's been nearly one year since those tests were carried out, and the Linux graphics drivers have advanced a great deal, particularly the open-source Gallium3D drivers, I have performed a new set of benchmarks to see if running Compiz with full-screen games at the server's native resolution still hurts the overall performance. The Compiz performance is also becoming more important since this compositing window manager is to play a critical role in Canonical's Unity Desktop for Ubuntu 11.04.


Mutter Can Cause A Gaming/OpenGL Performance Hit Too
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=mutter_composite...

KWin Can Cause A Performance Hit Too, But It's Different From Compiz
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=kwin_speed_test&...

To answer the question of those that were wondering about how KDE/KWin affects the gaming performance, yes, depending upon the graphics processor and driver there can be a performance hit similar to that of running Compiz due to the compositing that still takes place within a full-screen application. However, the performance between running Compiz and KWin is not always the same.


Edited 2011-05-27 09:44 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: Good for KDE
by leech on Sat 28th May 2011 03:02 in reply to "RE[6]: Good for KDE"
leech Member since:
2006-01-10

As someone said in this thread, not using the latest and greatest when you can it's a waste. The only logical reason for KDE and Compiz to use OpenGL ES 2.0 would be to support Wayland.


No, as said in the article, the reason for them to support OpenGL ES 2.0 is for Mobiles and tablets that only support the ES and not the full OpenGL spec.

Like my most infinitely awesome Nokia N900. When can I get a stable image of the mobile version of KDE 4 on it??!?!?!

Hmm, Maemo 5, MeeGo, NITDroid, and soon Kubuntu Mobile. Seriously this phone is like every geek's wet dream.

Edited 2011-05-28 03:05 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: Good for KDE
by r_a_trip on Fri 27th May 2011 09:13 in reply to "RE[5]: Good for KDE"
r_a_trip Member since:
2005-07-06

Which approach would you rather?

I know I'd rather have that OpenGL ES 2.0 support, but some people only look at version numbers. The bigger the numbers, the more better!

That and the fact that most people don't care if their fellows can't use the latest and greatest if they happen to have the stuff themselves to run it already in their shiny new machines.

Reply Parent Score: 4