Linked by Howard Fosdick on Mon 30th May 2011 22:04 UTC
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu Canonical Ltd., the company behind Ubuntu Linux, estimates that the product has over 12 million users worldwide. And why not? Ubuntu is free and it runs more than ten thousand applications. It has a vibrant user community, websites covering everything you might ever need to know, good tutorials, a paid support option, and more. Yet I often hear friends and co-workers casually criticize Ubuntu. Perhaps this the price of success. Or is it? In this article I'll analyze common criticisms and try to sort fact from fiction.
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RE[4]: Yeah right
by SteveB on Tue 31st May 2011 13:03 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Yeah right"
SteveB
Member since:
2005-07-10

It is supported, but they can't make an installer that installs a working client. It works on Windows and OS X.

Well... don't force me to go into DEB packaging issues.


The Windows version also has its share of problems. A number of people use Outlook (which I don't like/use) and a Domino connector. This makes their Outlook crash 3 times a day and force them to reboot their PC. They rather do this than use Notes.

LOL. A crashing Outlook makes them to reboot their OS? This speaks for the quality of the OS. Sorry. But no client application should that easy and constantly be able to knock down a OS.


There is a lot not to like about Notes, but I only have 6000 characters left. If you forget about everything there is to dislike about Notes you're still left with a bloated product. People here only use it for email and some the calendar function. Not even the todo. For this Notes is overkill, beyond it even.

So you got a wonderful application and application server that allows you to build easy rich applications, etc and you just use the email part (which is just an application on top of Domino) and based on those problems you have there you say Notes is a problem. Funny.

So if you use Opera/Chrome/FireFox/Safari/etc and you use a web application (for example Google Mail or Microsoft Hotmail) and you have problems with them then the problem is not the application but the browser.


If one would use Notes what it is intended for it is probably something wonderful.

I'm in the proces now of convincing our parent company to allow us to get rid of Notes and Domino.

Notes is the first and only thing new users complain about. When I need to do a quick mail I sometimes revert to my private mail client as it's a lot snappier.

Outlook 2010 isn't a diamond either, but at least it's a true email client. Well, intended to be one.

Notes can do way way more than Outlook. But if you just need Mail then Notes is an overkill. Even Outlook is an overkill. For mail you could use a gazillion of other applications that are faster, better, etc. If you need Calendaring and Scheduling then Outlook is fine.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Yeah right
by MOS6510 on Tue 31st May 2011 17:02 in reply to "RE[4]: Yeah right"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

"It is supported, but they can't make an installer that installs a working client. It works on Windows and OS X.

Well... don't force me to go into DEB packaging issues.

Why should this be a DEB packaging problem, on a supported platform even? All other software installs fine.

The Windows version also has its share of problems. A number of people use Outlook (which I don't like/use) and a Domino connector. This makes their Outlook crash 3 times a day and force them to reboot their PC. They rather do this than use Notes.


LOL. A crashing Outlook makes them to reboot their OS? This speaks for the quality of the OS. Sorry. But no client application should that easy and constantly be able to knock down a OS.

The OS (Windows XP) doesn't get knocked down, it's the IBM made Outlook-Domino connector that doesn't release certain file locks after it makes Outlook crash preventing Outlook from starting again.

There is a lot not to like about Notes, but I only have 6000 characters left. If you forget about everything there is to dislike about Notes you're still left with a bloated product. People here only use it for email and some the calendar function. Not even the todo. For this Notes is overkill, beyond it even.


So you got a wonderful application and application server that allows you to build easy rich applications, etc and you just use the email part (which is just an application on top of Domino) and based on those problems you have there you say Notes is a problem. Funny.

First of all I, nor anybody else in the company, wants to build rich or even poor applications. There is no need. We got Domino and Notes forced upon us. We didn't buy it because we wanted or needed it.

Second, I don't say Notes is a problem. I state nobody (where I work for sure) likes Notes. It's slow, buggy, overly complicated, bloated and has a non-intuitive interface.

So if you use Opera/Chrome/FireFox/Safari/etc and you use a web application (for example Google Mail or Microsoft Hotmail) and you have problems with them then the problem is not the application but the browser.

So if I use Gmail and when I want to create a new mail and it gives me a PHP error it must be the browser? Certainly you can't blame every problem with a web application on the browser.

If one would use Notes what it is intended for it is probably something wonderful.

I'm in the proces now of convincing our parent company to allow us to get rid of Notes and Domino.

Notes is the first and only thing new users complain about. When I need to do a quick mail I sometimes revert to my private mail client as it's a lot snappier.

Outlook 2010 isn't a diamond either, but at least it's a true email client. Well, intended to be one.

Notes can do way way more than Outlook. But if you just need Mail then Notes is an overkill. Even Outlook is an overkill. For mail you could use a gazillion of other applications that are faster, better, etc. If you need Calendaring and Scheduling then Outlook is fine.
"

We can agree on that, however Outlook is included in Microsoft Office so you paid for it anyway (if you bought Office of course). A lot of third party software/hardware solutions have plugins for Outlook. When Notes is mentioned people are not so sure it will work.

Personally I don't like Outlook or Notes. Outlook 2010 has the worst looking interface of all Outlook versions. Hell, I'd rather use Mutt than Outlook.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: Yeah right
by darknexus on Tue 31st May 2011 19:02 in reply to "RE[5]: Yeah right"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

The OS (Windows XP) doesn't get knocked down, it's the IBM made Outlook-Domino connector that doesn't release certain file locks after it makes Outlook crash preventing Outlook from starting again.


Oh yay, someone brings up one of the things I hate most about Windows: enforced file locks. Locking a file is generally a bad idea unless you absolutely need the file to remain static for a certain length of time. Enforcing a lock on any file operation, as Windows does, and not keeping track of which programs have acquired which locks (also as Windows does), results in a mess. A program crashes, the locks don't get released (with no official way to manually release them) and the system needs rebooted. In my experience, file locks are one of the most common reasons to reboot a Windows box, and it's unnecessary. Resource locks of any kind should always be placed in the hands of the application developers, while the os provides a method (hopefully automatic) for removing locks that are no longer valid in case of an application crash. This problem might not sound like one that affects end users drastically, but it does. If Microsoft would remove enforced resource locks, and remove the registry at the same time (or at least remove the ability for it to run anything and limit it to config storage alone) then I really wouldn't have anything to complain about in Windows 7.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[6]: Yeah right
by SteveB on Wed 1st Jun 2011 19:19 in reply to "RE[5]: Yeah right"
SteveB Member since:
2005-07-10

Why should this be a DEB packaging problem, on a supported platform even? All other software installs fine.

Was it not you writing about You manually need to google and download some library files? So that DEB package is not doing it's job right. The DEB package is written by IBM and it installs a binary application without obviously needed dependencies.


The OS (Windows XP) doesn't get knocked down, it's the IBM made Outlook-Domino connector that doesn't release certain file locks after it makes Outlook crash preventing Outlook from starting again.

I see two problems and have one question:

1) The IBM made Outlook-Domino connector is able to make Outlook crash? I don't think that IBM is using any undocumented API calls. So Outlook is the one needing to be blamed. But it could be that the IBM connector is the problem. I just don't know. But for sure Outlook is to blamed too for crashing.

2) Not releasing looks? Well... this is definitely something that should be managed inside the IBM Outlook/Domino connector.

And now my question: Have you reported this issue to IBM and Microsoft? You know that software does not fix it self auto-magically?


First of all I, nor anybody else in the company, wants to build rich or even poor applications. There is no need.

Then just don't build anything new and use what is already available out of the box.


We got Domino and Notes forced upon us. We didn't buy it because we wanted or needed it.

You got many other things forced upon you. So you could invest all your energy in fighting (a probably fruitless) fight or you could accept the decision of your company or parent company and live with it.


Second, I don't say Notes is a problem. I state nobody (where I work for sure) likes Notes. It's slow,

Well... what should I say here? I know Notes since version 1.01 and I used Notes for many years (in the recent years I am not using Notes for mail). The newer 8.5 release is pretty fast. Just give it the hardware that it needs and it will run pretty fine. You know that every software is slow on slow hardware?

buggy,

I am certified on Domino/Notes and the quality of Notes/Domino has increased very much in the last years. As a person that can develop/administer on Domino I can say that there are bugs in Notes/Domino. But calling the software buggy is wrong.

overly complicated,

Just for mail (you just use mail. Right?): NO
In some aspects it is different than Outlook but not much more complicated than any other mail application that has +/- the same functionality.

bloated

Well... for mail alone: YES


and has a non-intuitive interface.

I would be 100% on your line for anything below release 8. But after 8.0 Notes is not that non-intuitive.

So if I use Gmail and when I want to create a new mail and it gives me a PHP error it must be the browser? Certainly you can't blame every problem with a web application on the browser.

NO! A PHP error is not a browser issue. But you use one application (mail) that runs on top of Domino/Notes and because that application is not the way you like it, you blame Domino/Notes for it. This is wrong. Would be pretty much the same if you would say that C/C++ and Java are the problem because the Notes client is written in C/C++ and in Java (if you use the standard client and not the basic client).

If one would use Notes what it is intended for it is probably something wonderful.

No comment.

I'm in the proces now of convincing our parent company to allow us to get rid of Notes and Domino.

I wish you luck with that. Imagine there is a small subsidiary company of your parent company where all the workers are hardcore Mac users. Imagine them trying to convince your parent company that Windows, Exchange and Outlook is the wrong platform. What do you think will your parent company say?

We can agree on that, however Outlook is included in Microsoft Office so you paid for it anyway (if you bought Office of course). A lot of third party software/hardware solutions have plugins for Outlook. When Notes is mentioned people are not so sure it will work.

This is just because you don't know the Notes/Domino world. If your business would be build around IBM solutions then asking a business partner about plugins for Outlook will put question marks on their eyes. It's everywhere the same.

Personally I don't like Outlook or Notes. Outlook 2010 has the worst looking interface of all Outlook versions. Hell, I'd rather use Mutt than Outlook.

Welcome to the club. I used to like Notes but in the past years I have moved away from it. I know the product pretty well and I know what the Domino server is capable to do with or without the Notes client. I am as well fluent in the Microsoft world. And trust me that nothing is perfect. NOTHING. Maybe it's my age? I don't know. The older I get the more I like those lean and easy solutions. Notes just for mail is a killer.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: Yeah right
by SteveB on Wed 1st Jun 2011 20:09 in reply to "RE[5]: Yeah right"
SteveB Member since:
2005-07-10

btw: I am not trying to convince you that Domino/Notes is the best solution for you or your company (even if your company is using it right now). All I want to say is that if you need a groupware and/or messaging solution on Ubuntu than you could go with the Lotus Notes client.

Reply Parent Score: 1