Linked by David Adams on Tue 7th Jun 2011 17:54 UTC
Editorial Bob Cringeley makes a bold statement in a blog post responding to Apple's iCloud announcement: "Jobs is going to sacrifice the Macintosh in order to kill Windows." He says, "The incumbent platform today is Windows because it is in Windows machines that nearly all of our data and our ability to use that data have been trapped. But the Apple announcement changes all that. Suddenly the competition isn't about platforms at all, but about data, with that data being crunched on a variety of platforms through the use of cheap downloaded apps."
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RE: Comment by ssokolow
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Wed 8th Jun 2011 02:36 UTC in reply to "Comment by ssokolow"
Bill Shooter of Bul
Member since:
2006-07-14

I've also never had that happen in the 10+ years of linux desktop use. But I'm sure it probably does happen. Linux breaks, but its so much easier to fix. Windows and mac have limited options if the gui really is broken, without a boot disc to rescure you're kind a screwed.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by ssokolow
by daedalus on Wed 8th Jun 2011 12:57 in reply to "RE: Comment by ssokolow"
daedalus Member since:
2011-01-14

I've had Linux break. I've had Windows break. I've had MacOS break. None are particularly easy to "fix" when something bad goes wrong, unless you know the system much better than the average Joe. I don't think Linux is easier to fix, when with a Mac you can just install the system again in a new folder. You can do the same with Windows but your applications won't work any more. I've never even attempted it with Linux, but I suspect I would be a mess. In reality, for the average Joe, a format and reinstall is the easiest "fix" for serious problems, regardless of OS.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by ssokolow
by pantheraleo on Wed 8th Jun 2011 13:16 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by ssokolow"
pantheraleo Member since:
2007-03-07

I've had Linux break. I've had Windows break. I've had MacOS break.


I've had MacOS break as well. One morning, it simply refused to boot, and kept giving me a strange hard disk error. I called AppleCare and told them the error it was giving me, and they were worse than useless. They told me to take to Apple store and get the hard disk replaced because it was dead, even though I knew it was not because Apple's hardware diagnostics said there was nothing wrong with it, and I could access the hard disk just fine by mounting it from a Linux boot disk with HFS+ support.

I finally gave up on trying to figure out how to fix it after I could find no info on Google either about what the error meant or how to fix it, backed up my files, wiped the disk, and reinstalled OS X. That resolved the problem and it hasn't had any disk problems since.

So bottom line, it was definitely an OS X issue that not even Apple itself knew how to resolve.

Reply Parent Score: 2

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Yeah, I'm not the average Joe. I was talking from my perspective as well as the perspective of anyone who wants me to fix my computer ;)

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by ssokolow
by pantheraleo on Wed 8th Jun 2011 15:35 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by ssokolow"
pantheraleo Member since:
2007-03-07

when with a Mac you can just install the system again in a new folder. You can do the same with Windows but your applications won't work any more.



To be fair, that doesn't always work with Mac anymore either. A lot of Mac applications no longer use the sample "drag and drop" approach like they used to. Some of them have actual installers these days. And some of them don't place all of their stuff neatly into a single app bundle anymore than can just be dragged anywhere.

Which of course, brings up a problem with Mac that Apple hasn't addressed yet. Uninstalling applications that were installed with an installer can be problematic. In many cases, you can't simply drag them to the trash to get rid of them. They will still leave crap laying around in the Library folder and such.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by ssokolow
by koffie on Wed 8th Jun 2011 14:55 in reply to "RE: Comment by ssokolow"
koffie Member since:
2010-05-06

"Linux breaks, but its so much easier to fix"

Last time I've seen a non-linux GUI fail on a PC or Mac was when I still had Windows 98. Linux? Well ehm... let's just say I have an extensive history of having to edit xf86config and xorg.conf files by hand to recover my X11 and Xorg... Yes even in modern "point & click" ubuntu days I recently had to fall back to my in-depth knowledge of these config files.

So, easier to fix? Wake up. If something goes wrong on a linux system, and you can't get on the internet - you're screwed these days, unless you "fix" stuff like that on regular bases (which also isn't a very good sign). Linux is not for end-users.

Reply Parent Score: 3

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

We obviously have had different personal experiences which have contributed to our differing perceptions of the reliability of Guis. While our personal ancidotes wont settle any argument, it may help to broaden both of our mindsets.

I've twice switched over friends computers to Ubuntu because windows XP was completely broken ( wouldn't boot to gui) and the install disk was awol. I've also had no choice but to use Ubuntu on systems that were built using questionable hardware with non functioning windows drivers ( shame on me for trying to save some money on the motherboard, but still).

If something goes wrong on any system and you can't get on the internet- you're screwed these days unless you " fix" stuff like that on regular bases ( which also isn't a good sign). I don't know why it would be different for any system. I've brought xp, linux and osx back to life before ( with the help of knoppix and access to the internet), but could not have done that without the internet. I don't think you can single out Linux on that one.

IMHO, Linux is easier to fix, because the blueprints (source code, documentation, etc) for it are widely available. People know how it works. Again, you may have a different opinion based on your experiences and that's great. We can agree to disagree. Given the choice, I'd rather be attempting to fix a linux box.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by ssokolow
by pantheraleo on Wed 8th Jun 2011 15:41 in reply to "RE: Comment by ssokolow"
pantheraleo Member since:
2007-03-07

Linux breaks, but its so much easier to fix.


I'd have to disagree with that. I've had system upgrades and such break Linux in very weird ways that were definitely not easy to fix. Some of these required more than an hour of research on Google trying to find answers.

And of course, one only has to look at the number of threads in the Ubuntu forums that go something like this:

asker: "I have probmem so and so"

answerer1: "Did you try A?"

asker: "Tried that. Didn't fix the problem"

answer2: "Try B"

asker: "Tried it. Still having the same problem"

This will go on for a bit longer, until the answers just stop coming, leaving no answer that actually solved the problem.

I definitely don't think Linux is any easier to fix than Windows or OS X.

Edited 2011-06-08 15:59 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Comment by ssokolow
by j-kidd on Thu 9th Jun 2011 08:08 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by ssokolow"
j-kidd Member since:
2005-07-06

That's just the common theme of Ubuntu forums. Try Arc/Gentoo forums next time.

Reply Parent Score: 2