Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 17th Jun 2011 18:49 UTC
Privacy, Security, Encryption Oh boy, what do we make of this? We haven't paid that much attention to the whole thing as of yet, but with a recent public statement on why they do what they do, I think it's about time to address this thing. Yes, Lulz Security, the hacking group (or whatever they are) that's been causing quite a bit of amok on the web lately.
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RE[2]: The same Thom?
by Berend de Boer on Fri 17th Jun 2011 19:54 UTC in reply to "RE: The same Tom?"
Berend de Boer
Member since:
2005-10-19

Sorry Thom, learning.

Ah, the right regulation is in the eye of the beholder!

I was afraid so.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[3]: The same Thom?
by Thom_Holwerda on Fri 17th Jun 2011 20:07 in reply to "RE[2]: The same Thom?"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Ah, the right regulation is in the eye of the beholder!


Of course it is. Everything is. Unlike you, I don't seem to have a one-minded attitude. You apply regulation where it makes sense. Your attitude seems to be that regulation is always bad, and you seem to posses some sort of eternal everlasting faith in the free market.

Which is just as silly as believing in communism. Both are ideals that do not take human nature into account. Since humans are by definition self-centred pricks, they will abuse both a free market as well as a communist system. That's just the cold and harsh reality of this world.

And the reality I live in. Sometimes, regulation is necessary, as was clearly the case with net neutrality. Without it, the three telecommunications companies we have would unite, impose the same pricing system upon all of us (as was clearly hinted at by all three carriers), and erect even higher barriers to entry for newcomers (i.e., anti-interoperability measures, and we would've been in deep shit. Now, you might say - yeah well in a free market they shouldn't be allowed to do such things! That should be illegal!

That should be - dare I say - regulated?

The free market is an idealist dreamworld. It doesn't exist, and it will never exist. The sooner you realise that, the better.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[4]: The same Thom?
by Berend de Boer on Fri 17th Jun 2011 20:24 in reply to "RE[3]: The same Thom?"
Berend de Boer Member since:
2005-10-19

Come Thom, your regulation just outlawed some private companies. I'm sure the big ISPs will think you for that.

Even if you had to pay a few $$ more for your voip, would that have been the end of the world?

Now you have given the state the power to regulate the internet. This is simply the start.

And yes, I believe that free people in a free market will come up with mutually compatible solutions. Trusting politicians and regulations, which always have unintended consequences, to outperform the free market is believing Cuba is a paradise. If you can regulate perfectness, which is what you must believe to believe regulation will help, it would have been done in Cuba.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[4]: The same Thom?
by WorknMan on Fri 17th Jun 2011 21:18 in reply to "RE[3]: The same Thom?"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

Of course it is. Everything is. Unlike you, I don't seem to have a one-minded attitude. You apply regulation where it makes sense. Your attitude seems to be that regulation is always bad, and you seem to posses some sort of eternal everlasting faith in the free market.

Which is just as silly as believing in communism. Both are ideals that do not take human nature into account. Since humans are by definition self-centred pricks, they will abuse both a free market as well as a communist system. That's just the cold and harsh reality of this world.


Yeah, humans are by definition self-centered pricks.... except for the ones that run government. Those humans are all saints ;)

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[4]: The same Thom?
by kedwards on Sat 18th Jun 2011 15:29 in reply to "RE[3]: The same Thom?"
kedwards Member since:
2009-04-25


Of course it is. Everything is. Unlike you, I don't seem to have a one-minded attitude. You apply regulation where it makes sense. Your attitude seems to be that regulation is always bad, and you seem to posses some sort of eternal everlasting faith in the free market.

Which is just as silly as believing in communism. Both are ideals that do not take human nature into account. Since humans are by definition self-centred pricks, they will abuse both a free market as well as a communist system. That's just the cold and harsh reality of this world.

And the reality I live in. Sometimes, regulation is necessary, as was clearly the case with net neutrality. Without it, the three telecommunications companies we have would unite, impose the same pricing system upon all of us (as was clearly hinted at by all three carriers), and erect even higher barriers to entry for newcomers (i.e., anti-interoperability measures, and we would've been in deep shit. Now, you might say - yeah well in a free market they shouldn't be allowed to do such things! That should be illegal!

That should be - dare I say - regulated?

The free market is an idealist dreamworld. It doesn't exist, and it will never exist. The sooner you realise that, the better.


Great post, while I may disagree with you on net neutrality, your post summed up human nature perfectly. Your post reminded me of a video I saw on youtube a year ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: The same Thom?
by spudley99 on Mon 20th Jun 2011 12:25 in reply to "RE[3]: The same Thom?"
spudley99 Member since:
2009-03-25

...Since humans are by definition self-centred pricks, they will abuse both a free market as well as a communist system. That's just the cold and harsh reality of this world.


Hmm.. I would consider that to be a bit over-cynical.

I'd say a more accurate way of putting it would be that there is a proportion of humanity who are self-centred pricks and who will abuse whatever system is in place.

The trouble is that this proportion, while a minority, are the ones who end up in charge, and able to screw everyone else.

In fact, if everyone was a power hungry self-centred prick, systems like the free market which play on these attributes may actually work a lot better than they do.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: The same Thom?
by sgtrock on Mon 20th Jun 2011 15:33 in reply to "RE[3]: The same Thom?"
sgtrock Member since:
2011-05-13

<blockquote>Which is just as silly as believing in communism. Both are ideals that do not take human nature into account. Since humans are by definition self-centred pricks, they will abuse both a free market as well as a communist system. That's just the cold and harsh reality of this world. </blockquote>

If you modify that statement to,

<blockquote>"Since a small handful of humans are self-centered pricks that will abuse any idealistic system, we have to recognise that there must be safeguards in place to protect the rest of us. That's just the cold and harsh reality of this world."</blockquote>

I would agree with you 100%. :-)

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: The same Thom?
by redshift on Tue 21st Jun 2011 13:56 in reply to "RE[3]: The same Thom?"
redshift Member since:
2006-05-06

Very nicely put, Thom. Human nature tends to destroy ideals.

Reply Parent Score: 1