Linked by Andrew Hudson on Mon 20th Jun 2011 17:19 UTC
BeOS & Derivatives Haiku Alpha 3 has been in development for more than 14 months. In that time more than 800 bugs have been identified and fixed, major sections have been updated, applications have been added and updated, and great progress has been made in supporting additional hardware. Here is a summary of updates, more details can be found here. Also inside, interviews with some core Haiku developers.
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RE[2]: Looking Forward to Haiku
by specialspambot on Tue 21st Jun 2011 00:55 UTC in reply to "RE: Looking Forward to Haiku"
specialspambot
Member since:
2011-01-28

"outdated monolithic kernel design

It was labelled as "outdated" 20 years ago by Tanenbaum and for some reason is dominating all other Unixes.
If you wish to revisit the discussion, I think the archive is still there from 1991.

PS: If you don't like monolithic so much, why don't you switch to Darwin?
"


Wow its dominating 5% of the market space for pc's. so, its dominating other OS software and only becuase it was the only opensource nix clone kernel for many years.

So lets review, windows, hybrid microkernel, mac, hybrid,linux monolithic, given marketshare. the hybrids have it.

the professor appears to be correct.

Reply Parent Score: -2

senshikaze Member since:
2011-03-08

minix isn't a hybrid. it is a true micro-kernel. Technically, none of the above are true micro-kernel OS's. (I think the OS-periment by Hadrien Grasland is attempting to be a true micro-kernel design. At least that is the way I read it).
I don't think Be or Haiku is micro, either, but a hybrid (which is just that, a hybrid. It has micro-kernel features and monolithic features.)

Also, what about Linux's dominance in the server and HPC markets? Those don't count right?

Edited 2011-06-21 01:59 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

specialspambot Member since:
2011-01-28

minix isn't a hybrid. it is a true micro-kernel. Technically, none of the above are true micro-kernel OS's. (I think the OS-periment by Hadrien Grasland is attempting to be a true micro-kernel design. At least that is the way I read it).
I don't think Be or Haiku is micro, either, but a hybrid (which is just that, a hybrid. It has micro-kernel features and monolithic features.)

Also, what about Linux's dominance in the server and HPC markets? Those don't count right?



If you think that accounts for the bulk of computing devices, please continue. It also negates the fact that often linux and windows server are often running on the same hardware, often one virtualized. The market split is more like 50% and has been and will continue to be so for a long time.

Last year the PC market was around 300million machines IIRC. who sold 300 million servers last year ?

Reply Parent Score: 1

Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

minix isn't a hybrid. it is a true micro-kernel. Technically, none of the above are true micro-kernel OS's. (I think the OS-periment by Hadrien Grasland is attempting to be a true micro-kernel design. At least that is the way I read it).

Yup ;) I'd never have thought that my pet project would be used one day in an argument about micro vs monolithic kernels...

In the micro family, one can add QNX, Mach, L4, and I think that Symbian too has a microkernel structure but check my words on that. Tanenbaum also mentions some microkernels used in critical environments on his website.

I don't think Be or Haiku is micro, either, but a hybrid (which is just that, a hybrid. It has micro-kernel features and monolithic features.)

I always have a hard time defining hybrids myself ;) Most known hybrids sound to me like extremely modular monolithic designs : a huge lot of functionality is still in kernel mode, sharing a common address space, but in separate and easily replaceable code modules.

Edited 2011-06-21 05:44 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

Not2Sure Member since:
2009-12-07

I haven't followed Haiku over the past couple years due to lack of mindspace, but when the project started (openbeos.org!), Haiku was using the work of a former BeOS engineer: a fairly straightfoward fork of the NewOS kernel -- http://newos.org/features.php

How much that of that code/architecture has been retained someone else probably is better equipped to answer.

Reply Parent Score: 1

tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17


Wow its dominating 5% of the market space for pc's. so, its dominating other OS software and only becuase it was the only opensource nix clone kernel for many years.


There are other market spaces other than the desktop, things like server, embedded and mobile. Also there are/were plenty of other opensourced unix clones for many of those years, the BSDs predate Linux by a fair bit for example.


So lets review, windows, hybrid microkernel, mac, hybrid,linux monolithic, given marketshare. the hybrids have it.

the professor appears to be correct.


That is not much of a review, but rather a fairly selective enumeration without any sort of figures. Why don't you review the market share from a mobile or embedded standpoint What about the server or cloud infrastructure space, for example.

Oh, and the professor was not advocating "hybrids" BTW, but actual microkernels. The only commercial example of which I can think right now is QNX. Wanna compare the market share numbers of QNX vs. Linux to see who was right? Not that it matters since you were building an argument to popularity (and a silly one at that), which is a fallacy anyway.

Edited 2011-06-21 02:38 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

specialspambot Member since:
2011-01-28

"
Wow its dominating 5% of the market space for pc's. so, its dominating other OS software and only becuase it was the only opensource nix clone kernel for many years.


There are other market spaces other than the desktop, things like server, embedded and mobile. Also there are/were plenty of other opensourced unix clones for many of those years, the BSDs predate Linux by a fair bit for example.


So lets review, windows, hybrid microkernel, mac, hybrid,linux monolithic, given marketshare. the hybrids have it.

the professor appears to be correct.


That is not much of a review, but rather a fairly selective enumeration without any sort of figures. Why don't you review the market share from a mobile or embedded standpoint What about the server or cloud infrastructure space, for example.

Oh, and the professor was not advocating "hybrids" BTW, but actual microkernels.
"


some of us can read, I know its hard to fathom, he said that the hybrid have won, back in 1992. So was he correct. Yes he was.

last year the pc market sold around 300million machines. How many linux server are in the whole world ? Not that many.

Reply Parent Score: 1

Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

So lets review, windows, hybrid microkernel, mac, hybrid,linux monolithic, given marketshare. the hybrids have it.

the professor appears to be correct.

*cough cough cough*

Most Windows drivers still reside in kernel mode, to the best of my knowledge. The file system driver is also there, in the I/O subsystem. I believe GDI also resides in the NT kernel...

In short, NT is probably highly modular, which to the best of my knowledge is the core point of the "hybrid" appellation (lots of system services residing in independent low-level modules, but a mad pointer or a buffer overflow is still all it takes to take over the world), but calling it a microkernel is maybe a bit of a stretch.

Same for XNU, which started as a microkernel (Mach, IIRC), but has been shoehorned a lot of BSD kernel code in it to the point where it's now closer to a monolithic kernel in terms of kernel-mode functionality.

Edited 2011-06-21 05:43 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

That being said, Microsoft are aware of this design deficiency of NT, and try to slowly improve things. As an example, newer Windows GPU drivers (WDDM) partly reside in user mode and can crash without crashing the whole kernel (in some circumstances), which is good news already.

Edited 2011-06-21 06:07 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

Why PCs?

If you wish to use commercial success as a measure of technical merit (so I presume you're a business major ;-), then I would expect you to examine the fastest growing market segments, where smartphones (Android Linux) and tablets (iOS) are kicking butt.

On the other hand, if you wish to use the selection for the most demanding performance challenges as a measure of technical merit, then I would expect you to examine supercomputers, where Linux is all but ubiquitous.

Using an aging market in which a particular vendor has held a monopoly for well over a decade, since before introducing a totally new kernel in fact, seems like a really bizarre quality measure, frankly. It's almost as if you're selecting data to support your thesis. Hmmm....

Reply Parent Score: 3