Linked by lemur2 on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 22:30 UTC
Features, Office The Calligra Office Suite has announced its second snapshot release. The project, which is a fork of KOffice, is building a suite of productivity and creativity applications and is working towards its first formal end-user release due in October. The project is seeking feedback from end users particularly in the area of usability of the GUI. With this snapshot Calligra Office Words is claiming better compatibility with .docx than LibreOffice, and also claims to be approaching the best compatibility with legacy .doc formats.
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RE[5]: holding things back
by bassbeast on Sun 26th Jun 2011 07:29 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: holding things back"
bassbeast
Member since:
2007-11-11

Thank you as that is EXACTLY what I was talking about! Not a single doc I saw mangled was saved in ODF, all were saved as .doc (the 97-2003 compatible setting I believe) in Open Office. I lost 15 points from a mangled Open Office doc, dropping the paper from an A to a C, and my oldest lost 10 points with the latest Libre office because of the same reason.

So it is as I said, if the ONLY thing you are doing is saving docs for your own use, or to print? Then FOSS Office Suites are fine. If you need to collaborate or heaven forbid send a resume (which BTW no HR dept will accept PDF, as their placement software uses keyword search that doesn't work on anything but .doc) to try to land your dream job? Do NOT use FOSS Office suites, as they WILL horribly mangle even the most simple formatting. It has gotten better than the days of OO.o 1.x-2.x but that is like saying your horse costs less to feed now that its dead.

If you are getting graded, or collaborating, or have any weight at all attached to a document? Buy MS Office, hell even the student edition will do. Because if you send a .doc done by Open/Libre Office it WILL look like garbage when opened in MS Office. Personally I wish it weren't so, as I give out libre Office on all new home builds and I hate how folks end up having to spend nearly $100 on Office Student just to get anything done, but ATM LO/OO just butchers the .doc format when opened in MS Office. If you don't believe me do as Dave K did above, download any reasonably complex doc from any government website, edit in LO/OO and then save as .doc and open in any MS Office. You'll see the thing gets all kinds of hosed.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: holding things back
by lemur2 on Sun 26th Jun 2011 09:10 in reply to "RE[5]: holding things back"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Thank you as that is EXACTLY what I was talking about! Not a single doc I saw mangled was saved in ODF, all were saved as .doc (the 97-2003 compatible setting I believe) in Open Office. I lost 15 points from a mangled Open Office doc, dropping the paper from an A to a C, and my oldest lost 10 points with the latest Libre office because of the same reason.


My goodness you Americans are utterly spineless. I presume you are American, you clearly aren't Brazilian or anywhere sophisticated like that.

If my son or daughter handed up a file which they could demonstrate worked perfectly, and their teacher was so incompetent as to be unable to open it, especially as a PDF, and the teacher further then had the audacity to try to penalise my son or daughter for the teacher's incompetence, then I would petition to have that teacher sacked.

If the school resisted, I would take the case to the educational body that ran the school, and try to have the school's funding revoked.

I am the customer here, and I am right. It is not up to my son or daughter to have to teach the school how to do IT. The school has not one leg to stand on here, given that the technology they needed to be able to keep up with the competence of their own students was free software which would cost the school absolutely nothing to install.

Who is supposed to be teaching whom?

Who is paying for the service of providing the education, who is paying for the teacher's wages? ... I'll give you a hint, it isn't the school.

Edited 2011-06-26 09:19 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: holding things back
by lemur2 on Sun 26th Jun 2011 10:12 in reply to "RE[5]: holding things back"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

So it is as I said, if the ONLY thing you are doing is saving docs for your own use, or to print? Then FOSS Office Suites are fine. If you need to collaborate or heaven forbid send a resume (which BTW no HR dept will accept PDF, as their placement software uses keyword search that doesn't work on anything but .doc) to try to land your dream job? Do NOT use FOSS Office suites, as they WILL horribly mangle even the most simple formatting. It has gotten better than the days of OO.o 1.x-2.x but that is like saying your horse costs less to feed now that its dead.

If you are getting graded, or collaborating, or have any weight at all attached to a document? Buy MS Office, hell even the student edition will do. Because if you send a .doc done by Open/Libre Office it WILL look like garbage when opened in MS Office. Personally I wish it weren't so, as I give out libre Office on all new home builds and I hate how folks end up having to spend nearly $100 on Office Student just to get anything done, but ATM LO/OO just butchers the .doc format when opened in MS Office. If you don't believe me do as Dave K did above, download any reasonably complex doc from any government website, edit in LO/OO and then save as .doc and open in any MS Office. You'll see the thing gets all kinds of hosed.


You have got it utterly backwards, completely the wrong way around.

Free software is completely able to generate and faithfully re-open the files, in many alternative formats, it is MS Office that almost utterly lacks the ability to do so. MS Office is abysmal at interoperability, it is utter garbage. If you are doing any kind of collaboration, MS Office should be avoided like the plague.

http://jimmywales.com/2004/10/21/free-knowledge-requires-free-softw...
"We produce a massive website filled with an astounding variety of knowledge. If we were to produce this website using proprietary software, we would place potentially insurmountable obstacles in front of those who would like to take our knowledge and do the same thing that we are doing. If you need to get permission from a proprietary software vendor in order to create your own copy of our works, then you are not really free.

For the case of proprietary file formats, the situation is even worse. It could be argued, though not persuasively I think, that as long as Wikimedia content can be loaded into some existing free software easily enough, then our internal use of proprietary software is not so bad. For proprietary formats, even this seductive fallacy does not apply. If we offer information in a proprietary or patent-encumbered format, then we are not just violating our own commitment to freedom, we are forcing others who want to use our allegedly free knowledge to themselves use proprietary software.

Finally, we should never forget as a community that we are the vanguard of a knowledge revolution that will transform the world. We are the leading edge innovators and leaders of what is becoming a global movement to free knowledge from proprietary constraints. 100 years from now, the idea of a proprietary textbook or encyclopedia will sound as quaint and remote as we now think of the use of leeches in medical science."


Your recommendations are 100% the wrong thing to do in the best interests of nearly everyone on the planet.

Edited 2011-06-26 10:15 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: holding things back
by saynte on Sun 26th Jun 2011 14:24 in reply to "RE[6]: holding things back"
saynte Member since:
2007-12-10

I don't see how buying Office to produce .doc files is a bad recommendation. It is the most reliable way to do so, currently.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[7]: holding things back
by Dave_K on Sun 26th Jun 2011 16:05 in reply to "RE[6]: holding things back"
Dave_K Member since:
2005-11-16

You have got it utterly backwards, completely the wrong way around.

Free software is completely able to generate and faithfully re-open the files, in many alternative formats, it is MS Office that almost utterly lacks the ability to do so. MS Office is abysmal at interoperability, it is utter garbage. If you are doing any kind of collaboration, MS Office should be avoided like the plague.


Yes, in a perfect world everyone would be using free software with open file formats and there'd be no issues with compatibility, but that isn't the world we live in.

In the world of charities and government agencies that I deal with, every single organisation is using MS Office. Go to their websites and you'll find marketing materials in PDF, but everything intended to be editable is an MS Word document. MS Office formats are such a standard that they generally aren't even specified, it's just assumed that they're what you'll send.

Most of those people aren't even going to have heard of Open/LibreOffice. What response do you think I'd get if I insisted that they install another office suite just so that they can deal with the documents I'm sending to them?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: holding things back
by 1c3d0g on Sun 26th Jun 2011 21:47 in reply to "RE[6]: holding things back"
1c3d0g Member since:
2005-07-06

"Free software is completely able to generate and faithfully re-open the files, in many alternative formats,..."


Is there a name for this private fantasy world of yours?

People every day struggle to open even the most basic .doc files. For any business, this is completely unacceptable. Say what you want or believe what you want, but as long as 100% .doc conversion isn't made the #1 priority by these project, nobody will use these open source office suites for serious work. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is.

Reply Parent Score: 2