Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 26th Jun 2011 12:13 UTC
Privacy, Security, Encryption Well, after 50 days of causing amok on the web, the guys and/or girls behind LulzSec have called it quits last night. After hacking into the systems of various Arizona law enforcement agencies and releasing countless internal documents, they published a statement on Pastebin yesterday, dumping yet another boatload of data on The Pirate Bay, and announcing their disbanding.
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RE[2]: Democracy
by ricegf on Mon 27th Jun 2011 11:48 UTC in reply to "RE: Democracy"
ricegf
Member since:
2007-04-25

So let me get this straight. Our country isn't a democracy (sic) unless we let NON-citizens outside our border vote on the laws under which we'll live? Seriously?

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Democracy
by spiderman on Mon 27th Jun 2011 13:27 in reply to "RE[2]: Democracy"
spiderman Member since:
2008-10-23

Democracy is not about voting. Your country gives you an illusion of democracy that looks like democracy from within. They teach you that you live in a democracy since birth and the proof is that you vote. Actually they cherry pick the citizens based on the money they have. If there was a real democracy, all the immigrants would have the same power as the other citizens no matter how much money they have. As it stands, many immigrants are illegal. They still live under your law but it's not the same law that you live under and they have no say in whatever. You call them illegals and pretend to have democracy. This is a joke.

Edited 2011-06-27 13:34 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[4]: Democracy
by ricegf on Mon 27th Jun 2011 15:27 in reply to "RE[3]: Democracy"
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

That's truly bizarre. Have you ever even been to the USA?

"Actually they cherry pick the citizens based on the money they have. "

Who's "they"? A person is a citizen who was born or naturalized here. I know several naturalized citizens, none of whom are wealthy. I know not one person in the homeless shelters and missions in which I've worked over the past few decades that have ever had their citizenship revoked. Not one.

"If there was a real democracy, all the immigrants would have the same power as the other citizens no matter how much money they have."

An immigrant who is a naturalized citizen has the same power as any other, with trivial exceptions. Ever heard of Arnold Swartzenagger, recent governor of California? Immigrant.

"As it stands, many immigrants are illegal. They still live under your law..."

They live in violation of our law. By definition - that's why they are "illegal". The solution is to obtain a green card and become a legal immigrant by "living under our law".

Seriously, which country in the world do you propose would allow me to fly in for an afternoon and vote in their elections. Why would they want to permit that?

I think you've been reading some seriously misleading blogs!

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Democracy
by gilljr on Tue 28th Jun 2011 00:01 in reply to "RE[3]: Democracy"
gilljr Member since:
2008-01-30

FYI: The United States of America is a Republic and not a Democracy.

I live in Arizona and have issues with your comments and animosity. There are monetary requirements and health requirements to become a US citizen if you are not born into the country. The US does not want new citizens to become a burden to the system and draw welfare. They have determined this the best way to reduce that risk. I personally have sponsored 2 immigrants to become citizens and neither one of them met the monetary requirements without my help. One is now a productive US citizen and the other will be soon. The only thing that is a joke is your lack of knowledge on the subject.

The US and the State of Arizona provide protections to all people including illegal immigrants. In fact, we provide more protections than most countries.

Arizona is a major traffic path for people entering the US illegally. This has put enormous strain on our State's resources (other States do not have this strain) that the federal government is not willing to cover. The citizens are now enacting laws to discourage illegal immigrants from entering and staying by taking away free services and enabling local law enforcement to supplement the federal law enforcement. These laws are meant to relieve the burden on the State, nothing more.

Unfortunately, it is not in the federal government's interest to put up more than a token effort in stopping illegal immigration. There are powerful lobbing forces (farmers are the ones that come to mind first, but there are others) that do not want illegals to leave because they can be paid lower than legal wages under the table. I think you find this in many countries with high labor costs.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Democracy
by bryanv on Tue 28th Jun 2011 17:34 in reply to "RE[3]: Democracy"
bryanv Member since:
2005-08-26

They aren't living -under- the law. They're living outside of it. Their continued presence is a violation of the law -- hence ILLEGAL.

Also, if they're here living under our law, then why aren't they PAYING TAXES LIKE THE REST OF THE VOTING POPULATION?!

Yet, they continue to receive the benefits of social services paid for by the rest of the LEGAL, VOTING, TAX-PAYING POPULATION.

We damn well ought to be able to tell them to f**k off and go home. If they want to participate in our society, there are legal ways in which to do that. It's a process engineered to weed out the leeches, and to reward those individuals and families which genuinely want to live, contribute, and flourish in our society.

The rest of the leeches can GTFO.

Reply Parent Score: 2