Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 26th Jun 2011 12:13 UTC
Privacy, Security, Encryption Well, after 50 days of causing amok on the web, the guys and/or girls behind LulzSec have called it quits last night. After hacking into the systems of various Arizona law enforcement agencies and releasing countless internal documents, they published a statement on Pastebin yesterday, dumping yet another boatload of data on The Pirate Bay, and announcing their disbanding.
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RE[5]: Democracy
by spiderman on Mon 27th Jun 2011 16:45 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Democracy"
spiderman
Member since:
2008-10-23

That's truly bizarre. Have you ever even been to the USA?
I didn't single out the USA. Most of western Europe is just like that.

They live in violation of our law. By definition - that's why they are "illegal". The solution is to obtain a green card and become a legal immigrant by "living under our law".

Seriously, which country in the world do you propose would allow me to fly in for an afternoon and vote in their elections. Why would they want to permit that?

Again, democracy is not about voting. The green card should be given to whoever requests it and people should be given all the rights to education, information and access to resources that democracy entails. If you vote to deny access to democracy for a part of the people then you vote against democracy.
If you want to select and cherry pick your immigrants and call those you didn't pick illegals, then you don't have democracy. The illegals are still people and under a democracy they don't exist since the people has the power.

Edited 2011-06-27 16:51 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Democracy
by ricegf on Mon 27th Jun 2011 17:33 in reply to "RE[5]: Democracy"
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

Look, we tried that through the early 20th century, and eventually the problems it caused became so dire that we switched to the current system - which, while far from flawless, did in fact resolve the most serious of those problems.

Since you proclaim yourself an expert on "democracy" (ignoring for the moment that we are a republic rather than a democracy) and on the USA (even though you've never set foot in this country), what alternate solutions to those problems would you offer?

Bold pronouncements should be backed by bold solutions. Let's hear 'em!

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: Democracy
by spiderman on Mon 27th Jun 2011 19:12 in reply to "RE[6]: Democracy"
spiderman Member since:
2008-10-23

Here is my solution: stop bragging about democracy. Until you are a democracy, just get a low profile and don't lecture the world on democracy. Democracy is not necessarily what you want anyway. You have a so called democat party that want to improve democracy in your country. As I understood it they are as powerless as the rest of the political scene but at least they tend to speack in favor of the illegal immigrants. If you don't agree with democracy, it's fine but don't call yourself a democrat then. If you are a republican, you are a republican, not a democrat.

Edited 2011-06-27 19:12 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Democracy
by smitty on Mon 27th Jun 2011 18:13 in reply to "RE[5]: Democracy"
smitty Member since:
2005-10-13

democracy is not about voting.

Huh?

The green card should be given to whoever requests it and people should be given all the rights to education, information and access to resources that democracy entails. If you vote to deny access to democracy for a part of the people then you vote against democracy.
If you want to select and cherry pick your immigrants and call those you didn't pick illegals, then you don't have democracy. The illegals are still people and under a democracy they don't exist since the people has the power.

So basically you're saying that all immigration laws are inherently undemocratic and that everyone in the world should be counted as an American citizen?

Sorry, but we're going to have to agree to disagree on that point.

If we ever get a single world-government that argument would make sense. While we still have different nation states, it's nonsense.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: Democracy
by spiderman on Mon 27th Jun 2011 19:14 in reply to "RE[6]: Democracy"
spiderman Member since:
2008-10-23

That is not what I said.

Reply Parent Score: 2