Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 26th Jun 2011 12:13 UTC
Privacy, Security, Encryption Well, after 50 days of causing amok on the web, the guys and/or girls behind LulzSec have called it quits last night. After hacking into the systems of various Arizona law enforcement agencies and releasing countless internal documents, they published a statement on Pastebin yesterday, dumping yet another boatload of data on The Pirate Bay, and announcing their disbanding.
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RE[4]: Democracy
by gilljr on Tue 28th Jun 2011 00:01 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Democracy"
gilljr
Member since:
2008-01-30

FYI: The United States of America is a Republic and not a Democracy.

I live in Arizona and have issues with your comments and animosity. There are monetary requirements and health requirements to become a US citizen if you are not born into the country. The US does not want new citizens to become a burden to the system and draw welfare. They have determined this the best way to reduce that risk. I personally have sponsored 2 immigrants to become citizens and neither one of them met the monetary requirements without my help. One is now a productive US citizen and the other will be soon. The only thing that is a joke is your lack of knowledge on the subject.

The US and the State of Arizona provide protections to all people including illegal immigrants. In fact, we provide more protections than most countries.

Arizona is a major traffic path for people entering the US illegally. This has put enormous strain on our State's resources (other States do not have this strain) that the federal government is not willing to cover. The citizens are now enacting laws to discourage illegal immigrants from entering and staying by taking away free services and enabling local law enforcement to supplement the federal law enforcement. These laws are meant to relieve the burden on the State, nothing more.

Unfortunately, it is not in the federal government's interest to put up more than a token effort in stopping illegal immigration. There are powerful lobbing forces (farmers are the ones that come to mind first, but there are others) that do not want illegals to leave because they can be paid lower than legal wages under the table. I think you find this in many countries with high labor costs.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Democracy
by smitty on Tue 28th Jun 2011 01:09 in reply to "RE[4]: Democracy"
smitty Member since:
2005-10-13

FYI: The United States of America is a Republic and not a Democracy.

Definitely. A true democracy is not possible.

The US and the State of Arizona provide protections to all people including illegal immigrants. In fact, we provide more protections than most countries.

Something often forgotten is that the same issues are happening all around the world. France in particular has had a lot of immigration problems, and I don't think Arizona is particularly worse than any other country.

Arizona is a major traffic path for people entering the US illegally. This has put enormous strain on our State's resources (other States do not have this strain) that the federal government is not willing to cover. The citizens are now enacting laws to discourage illegal immigrants from entering and staying by taking away free services and enabling local law enforcement to supplement the federal law enforcement. These laws are meant to relieve the burden on the State, nothing more.

I'm not sure there's been any serious study actually showing this. Most of the ones I've heard have shown that immigrants have helped the economy by providing cheap labor. That may hurt a few parts of the economy in exchange for helping others, but let's be honest - that's not the reason for what's happening in Arizona. It's because they are easy scapegoats. Unemployment hits 10% because of the bad economy? Govt spending exceeds tax revenue? Must be the illegal immigrant problem, because the government sure doesn't want you to blame them. It really doesn't matter whether or not unemployment would have been 5% or 15% without the immigrants, they're going to take the blame.

And to be fair, they are in the country illegally. So I don't think they have any right to complain.

Unfortunately, it is not in the federal government's interest to put up more than a token effort in stopping illegal immigration. There are powerful lobbing forces (farmers are the ones that come to mind first, but there are others) that do not want illegals to leave because they can be paid lower than legal wages under the table. I think you find this in many countries with high labor costs.

Yep. Ultimately it's not going to be possible to stop illegal immigration as long as the money is available to them. Stop the corporations and farms from hiring them, and they'll stop coming. Is that doable? Certainly - but it's going to piss off big business, which is why it won't happen. Instead, we'll get ineffective half-measures that let politicians tell people they're doing something while still letting businesses take advantage.

While I don't have any problem with the countries immigration laws, I do admit to being troubled by the one in Arizona that requires them to have papers at all times. Even though i can see the logical reasoning behind it, the law will forever be linked in my mind to the way Germany required Jews to carry id. At the time, Jews were blamed by common society for many of the problems of the day, just like immigrants are now. I realize that the current government would never go on to do what the Nazis did, but for me the situations are already too similar to feel comfortable with.

Edited 2011-06-28 01:13 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Democracy
by DrillSgt on Tue 28th Jun 2011 12:52 in reply to "RE[5]: Democracy"
DrillSgt Member since:
2005-12-02

While I don't have any problem with the countries immigration laws, I do admit to being troubled by the one in Arizona that requires them to have papers at all times. Even though i can see the logical reasoning behind it, the law will forever be linked in my mind to the way Germany required Jews to carry id. At the time, Jews were blamed by common society for many of the problems of the day, just like immigrants are now. I realize that the current government would never go on to do what the Nazis did, but for me the situations are already too similar to feel comfortable with.


Just wanted to point out, it is not only immigrants that are required to carry "papers", but everyone who lives in the US. Without having a government issued ID on you, be it a drivers license, or regular ID card, etc, the police will take you into custody if they ask for it and you cannot produce it.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: Democracy
by vitae on Tue 28th Jun 2011 01:21 in reply to "RE[4]: Democracy"
vitae Member since:
2006-02-20

I think Arizonans expect too much from the Federal government. Sorry, but this is Arizona's problem being a border state, and if they don't like the job the U.S. government is doing, they are free to build a wall 50 feet high or whatever AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE (not the U.S. taxpayer's).

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Democracy
by gilljr on Tue 28th Jun 2011 20:09 in reply to "RE[5]: Democracy"
gilljr Member since:
2008-01-30

Arizona does not expect to much from the Federal government. Arizona is actually trying to do things but the Federal government is telling them no, taking the State to court. Arizona does not have a problem with implementing solutions at its own expense. The Feds do, saying that it is their job and anyone else trying to regulate immigration (legal or illegal) is breaking the law. Installing a 50ft fence I am sure they would deem illegal. I personally would not go along with a 50ft fence.

If you have followed the immigration issue in Arizona, the State has some tough employer sanction laws to target businesses that hire illegal immigrants. It does not only have laws targeting the immigrants. Employers who focus on hiring illegal immigrants are the modern day slavers if you ask me.

Immigration in the US and the State of Arizona is a big issue. There is to much money supporting illegal immigration for it to stop or for the government to enact measures that discourage the act. Until the government takes a stand, people are going to be taken advantage of. It is plain sad!

I will make no more posts on this subject in this forum because it is way of topic and has nothing to do with OSNews.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Democracy
by spiderman on Tue 28th Jun 2011 06:05 in reply to "RE[4]: Democracy"
spiderman Member since:
2008-10-23

I don't accept the "we do more than other countries" as an excuse. Your country is not the other countries. In my country I hear it all the time. They always take the other countries as an excuse. Even if that was true that other countries do less than mine, so what? This is not an excuse to stagnate while the others catch up. They will never catch up because they use the same excuse. Actually this excuse is conservative. Progress is only possible when you stop waiting for others to catch up.

Reply Parent Score: 2