Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 26th Jun 2011 12:13 UTC
Privacy, Security, Encryption Well, after 50 days of causing amok on the web, the guys and/or girls behind LulzSec have called it quits last night. After hacking into the systems of various Arizona law enforcement agencies and releasing countless internal documents, they published a statement on Pastebin yesterday, dumping yet another boatload of data on The Pirate Bay, and announcing their disbanding.
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RE[5]: Democracy
by smitty on Tue 28th Jun 2011 01:09 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Democracy"
smitty
Member since:
2005-10-13

FYI: The United States of America is a Republic and not a Democracy.

Definitely. A true democracy is not possible.

The US and the State of Arizona provide protections to all people including illegal immigrants. In fact, we provide more protections than most countries.

Something often forgotten is that the same issues are happening all around the world. France in particular has had a lot of immigration problems, and I don't think Arizona is particularly worse than any other country.

Arizona is a major traffic path for people entering the US illegally. This has put enormous strain on our State's resources (other States do not have this strain) that the federal government is not willing to cover. The citizens are now enacting laws to discourage illegal immigrants from entering and staying by taking away free services and enabling local law enforcement to supplement the federal law enforcement. These laws are meant to relieve the burden on the State, nothing more.

I'm not sure there's been any serious study actually showing this. Most of the ones I've heard have shown that immigrants have helped the economy by providing cheap labor. That may hurt a few parts of the economy in exchange for helping others, but let's be honest - that's not the reason for what's happening in Arizona. It's because they are easy scapegoats. Unemployment hits 10% because of the bad economy? Govt spending exceeds tax revenue? Must be the illegal immigrant problem, because the government sure doesn't want you to blame them. It really doesn't matter whether or not unemployment would have been 5% or 15% without the immigrants, they're going to take the blame.

And to be fair, they are in the country illegally. So I don't think they have any right to complain.

Unfortunately, it is not in the federal government's interest to put up more than a token effort in stopping illegal immigration. There are powerful lobbing forces (farmers are the ones that come to mind first, but there are others) that do not want illegals to leave because they can be paid lower than legal wages under the table. I think you find this in many countries with high labor costs.

Yep. Ultimately it's not going to be possible to stop illegal immigration as long as the money is available to them. Stop the corporations and farms from hiring them, and they'll stop coming. Is that doable? Certainly - but it's going to piss off big business, which is why it won't happen. Instead, we'll get ineffective half-measures that let politicians tell people they're doing something while still letting businesses take advantage.

While I don't have any problem with the countries immigration laws, I do admit to being troubled by the one in Arizona that requires them to have papers at all times. Even though i can see the logical reasoning behind it, the law will forever be linked in my mind to the way Germany required Jews to carry id. At the time, Jews were blamed by common society for many of the problems of the day, just like immigrants are now. I realize that the current government would never go on to do what the Nazis did, but for me the situations are already too similar to feel comfortable with.

Edited 2011-06-28 01:13 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Democracy
by DrillSgt on Tue 28th Jun 2011 12:52 in reply to "RE[5]: Democracy"
DrillSgt Member since:
2005-12-02

While I don't have any problem with the countries immigration laws, I do admit to being troubled by the one in Arizona that requires them to have papers at all times. Even though i can see the logical reasoning behind it, the law will forever be linked in my mind to the way Germany required Jews to carry id. At the time, Jews were blamed by common society for many of the problems of the day, just like immigrants are now. I realize that the current government would never go on to do what the Nazis did, but for me the situations are already too similar to feel comfortable with.


Just wanted to point out, it is not only immigrants that are required to carry "papers", but everyone who lives in the US. Without having a government issued ID on you, be it a drivers license, or regular ID card, etc, the police will take you into custody if they ask for it and you cannot produce it.

Reply Parent Score: 2