Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 29th Jun 2011 15:04 UTC
Apple Well, this just got interesting. There's been a bit of a backlash over Apple's Final Cut X Pro, which is considered a step down from previous versions by many professional videographers, as they claim it lacks countless features - leading to the nickname 'iMovie Pro'. Former Shake product designer and former Apple employee Ron Brinkmann has now weighed in on the situation. His advice to professionals? Don't rely on companies like Apple.
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RE: This whole thing is total BS.
by phoudoin on Wed 29th Jun 2011 17:18 UTC in reply to "This whole thing is total BS."
phoudoin
Member since:
2006-06-09

Seriously, this is version ONE.O people. ONE.O. ONE.O this is not version 5.0 of this completely from the ground up rewritten version of Final Cut.


Except that Apple's marketing it as being the version "X" of an existing "pro" software, not version One of an all new "pro" software.
It's called "Final Cut Pro X", like before the previous versions were called "Final Cut Pro 7" and "Final Cut Pro 6".

Same product name, only the version suffix changed. And this suffix is always increasing, like MacOS X was dubbed MacOS "10" by Apple to both keep the link with older (outdated, in fact) MacOS version, so offering a great upgrade path, but with an all new code redesign.

There is no way to get from this that :
- it's a new product, not an upgrade.
- it won't be able to load projects done with a previous version because, hey, it's an all new product so there is no projects made with a previous version yet :-)
- the Pro required features won't be the main focus anymore.

May Apple have choosed to use a new name (Final iMovie Cut anyone?) for this software, you'll have a very valid point. But it's not the case.

Imagine one second that next Microsoft Office version, even heavily redesigned, will lack the ability to load documents made by the previous versionn, not a very old version, no, simply the previous one.
What will you say then?
Seriously?

Sounds like your opinion is tainted here.

Edited 2011-06-29 17:27 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

Sabon Member since:
2005-07-06

Really? Actually they aren't saying what you THINK they are saying.

They are saying this is the FUTURE of FCP and that for a lot of people who don't use tape anymore and don't need to import/convert their old projects and don't currently need multi-camera support, then this will be a great product for them.

For the rest of FCP users, including you, this is a very tasty look into the future of what you and/or other pro users will be using.

[quote]Imagine one second that next Microsoft Office version, even heavily redesigned, will lack the ability to load documents made by the previous version. What will you say then? Seriously. [/quote]

What I would say is, IF I used Microsoft products, which I don't, is that is a very cool look at a future version of MS Office and that I'll stick with the old version until the new version is ready. My old version would still be there and usable.

PS: Microsoft has done that time and again already. It is not an "if" about Microsoft. It is an "they've already done that" and here they go again.

Edited 2011-06-29 17:27 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 0

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

They are saying this is the FUTURE of FCP and that for a lot of people who don't use tape anymore and don't need to import/convert their old projects and don't currently need multi-camera support, then this will be a great product for them.


So its the future of FCP, for users that have never used FCP before.

For the rest of FCP users, including you, this is a very tasty look into the future of what you and/or other pro users will be using.


Its a very tasty $299 look. Me, I like my tastes with a good burgundy, or under $100.

Reply Parent Score: 2

phoudoin Member since:
2006-06-09

Really? Actually they aren't saying what you THINK they are saying.

And?
It's Apple job to explains better then, not mine to better reads their (quite secret) mind.
But maybe they think they don't have to anymore.
Such attitude have a name.

Blaming your customers is not a good strategy, too.

They are saying this is the FUTURE of FCP


It's not future, it's present: everybody can buy it *now* on Mac App Store.

It's not stamped alpha, beta, preview or whatever, it's stamped "Final Cut Pro X". Aka latest new version of their "Final Cut Pro" software.
Plus Apple has (had?) a long track of products release quality, it's part of their brand, and they communicates a lot on it.

All these is not saying FUTURE but PRESENT, sorry.

"and that for a lot of people who don't use tape anymore and don't need to import/convert their old projects and don't currently need multi-camera support, then this will be a great product for them."

Sure.
But:
- I'm not one of them.
- These limitations are not written on the box.

"For the rest of FCP users, including you, this is a very tasty look into the future of what you and/or other pro users will be using."

The taste must be better, then. Otherwise, it could goes the reverse way. There is others NLE products. Really.

What I would say is, IF I used Microsoft products, which I don't, is that is a very cool look at a future version of MS Office and that I'll stick with the old version until the new version is ready.

Again, if "Final Cut Pro X", a software whose name was clearly chosen to say that's it's a new version of "Final Cut Pro" (it's so obvious I'm surprised it's not taken as is by fanboys...), is not ready, don't sell it *now*.

Offer a "preview edition access" if you want then, but don't sell like it's a ready upgraded version of one of your pro-line software products.
That simple.

But Apple failed to do it here.
Maybe they don't care that much anymore.
Which *is* a legitimate source of doubt for pro customers.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

PS: Microsoft has done that time and again already. It is not an "if" about Microsoft. It is an "they've already done that" and here they go again.

I don't remember that Microsoft ever sold an Office Suite unable to load documents made by last previous version. And, believe me, I'm not a fan of their products either or proprietary formats, but I'm curious if you can provides some facts here.

Edited 2011-06-29 18:07 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Really? Actually they aren't saying what you THINK they are saying.


They're saying exactly what he thinks; that this is version 10 of FCP. It's not version 1, X means 10. If they mean something else they should do a better job of communicating it to the existing users. Obviously that's not the case.

They are saying this is the FUTURE of FCP and that for a lot of people who don't use tape anymore and don't need to import/convert their old projects and don't currently need multi-camera support, then this will be a great product for them.


So, uh, it's a Pro product for non-professionals.

For the rest of FCP users, including you, this is a very tasty look into the future of what you and/or other pro users will be using.


If they have any Pro users left, that is.

Reply Parent Score: 2

apoclypse Member since:
2007-02-17

"Seriously, this is version ONE.O people. ONE.O. ONE.O this is not version 5.0 of this completely from the ground up rewritten version of Final Cut.


Except that Apple's marketing it as being the version "X" of an existing "pro" software, not version One of an all new "pro" software.
It's called "Final Cut Pro X", like before the previous versions were called "Final Cut Pro 7" and "Final Cut Pro 6".

Same product name, only the version suffix changed. And this suffix is always increasing, like MacOS X was dubbed MacOS "10" by Apple to both keep the link with older (outdated, in fact) MacOS version, so offering a great upgrade path, but with an all new code redesign.

There is no way to get from this that :
- it's a new product, not an upgrade.
- it won't be able to load projects done with a previous version because, hey, it's an all new product so there is no projects made with a previous version yet :-)
- the Pro required features won't be the main focus anymore.

May Apple have choosed to use a new name (Final iMovie Cut anyone?) for this software, you'll have a very valid point. But it's not the case.

Imagine one second that next Microsoft Office version, even heavily redesigned, will lack the ability to load documents made by the previous versionn, not a very old version, no, simply the previous one.
What will you say then?
Seriously?

Sounds like your opinion is tainted here.
"

On that note Apple should have been more clear on some of these points. I don't agree with your statement about the X. I mean going from version 7 to version ten is a damn big leap don't you think? So you have to think that the X is just a way for Apple to denote a huge change in the software. The same happened with Quicktime. Quicktime X and quiktime 7 aren't using the same codebase. Anyone who has been following Apple over the years would know this. So did all of those these professionals, who btw were cheering their asses off when Apple demoed FCPX at NAB, but now choose to complain about what is essentially a completely different platform and software.

It really does remind me quite a bit of the same complaints people had about OSX. How did that turn out? I think they are complaining (like all pro users do) that Apple didn't give them more of the same with shiny features tacked on. That's exactly what the OS9 crowd complained about. Where Apple did fail is completely dropping support for FCP7, though imo, if you are a professional who uses FCP then you should already have the software. Apple isn't going to your Mac and removing the software.

Either way I think Apple will add the features as time goes on. I don't think they care about tape so they will probably leave that to third parties.

Edited 2011-06-29 19:31 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

Sabon Member since:
2005-07-06

apoclypse - I agree 100% with you.

Reply Parent Score: 1

phoudoin Member since:
2006-06-09

I don't agree with your statement about the X. I mean going from version 7 to version ten is a damn big leap don't you think? So you have to think that the X is just a way for Apple to denote a huge change in the software. The same happened with Quicktime. Quicktime X and quiktime 7 aren't using the same codebase.


I didn't remember QuickTime X dropping backward compatibility or not supporting earlier versions features of QuickTime. Do you?

New codebase is neither a selling feature neither an valid excuse.

Anyone who has been following Apple over the years would know this.


They also know that MacOS X provides backward compatibility with previous MacOS version, that QuickTime X provides backward compatibility with previous version. Even if they were new codebase.

So, how one could know by himself that FCP X wont be backward compatible or wont support at least the set of Pro features that does previous version of FCP?

By reading on the box?
Nope, nothing there.
By reading the press release?
Nope, nothing there.

So did all of those these professionals, who btw were cheering their asses off when Apple demoed FCPX at NAB,


FCP X "preview" was demoed at NAB. It was not released in store yet then. It is now.
And nothing inform buyers about the broken backward compatibility or the features set which don't cover Pro ones. It was not said during NAB either.

You can twist it as much as you want, the facts are that they present it as the *new* Final Cut Pro version without saying it's not backward compatible.

but now choose to complain about what is essentially a completely different platform and software.


Then give it a completly different name, for god sake!

Where Apple did fail is completely dropping support for FCP7, though imo, if you are a professional who uses FCP then you should already have the software. Apple isn't going to your Mac and removing the software.


Now. But could you bet that Mac App Store won't ever do that when upgrading a product?
What would happened if the Mac App Store upgrade process had remove FCP 7 to replace with FCP X?
Oh, sure, Apple will have fixed it a few days or weeks, but until that, no access to existing FCP projects!?
That's money loss.

I'm sorry, but maybe that a risk consumers could accept, but pros really can't. There is enough stuff that could jeopardize your business, you don't need some software provider to screw your workstation.

And Apple just send the signal this risk is increasing with their FCP product.
The least pros can do is sending back the signal that they won't accept it.

Reply Parent Score: 3