Linked by David Adams on Thu 30th Jun 2011 15:55 UTC, submitted by Jennimc
Apple Newly published results show Apple's newly adopted Thunderbolt technology blows FireWire 800 out of the water with data transfer speeds to an external RAID system at 700MB/s.
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RE[5]: Where's eSATA?
by novad on Fri 1st Jul 2011 10:39 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Where's eSATA?"
novad
Member since:
2010-06-10

I do know about the subject. I've told you directly, and you are free to research the matter yourself.

I'll certainly do it when I have some time. To be honest it's not an immediate priority. But it'll certainly happen soon.

We aren't talking about eSATA, we are talking about Thunderbolt.

Hum... I answered to that:

Thunderbolt is far faster than USB 3.0 and other competing technologies.

So for me... Yes... You were talking about Thunderbolt in comparison to other technologies and my answer was relevant.

The original claim stated that Apple "tout[s] it as being 50x faster than the competition".

True for SOME other technologies... Certainly not all the competition. It's only one word, but it changes completely the meaning of the statement

The fact is, Thunderbolt is extremely fast.

True

It is faster than some, not as fast as others.

True

Of course if it is significantly faster than some specific technology that is otherwise commonly used for the same problem domain, marketing will make a point of that and moreover would be fools if they didn't.

That's the point... Marketing says "we're better than others". Reality says "This technology is good (Technically speaking) but...".

TB is certainly better than some technologies commonly used actually, but TB isn't a technology commonly used either... It's like comparing apples with oranges.

It's relevant to compare an upcoming technology to another upcoming technology, not to a legacy one.

I never said Apple wasn't involved in Firewire. I said Intel is the recognized designer of Thunderbolt, formerly known as Light Peak. Do your homework.

Please keep polite. It's not because you're safely hidden behind your iWhatever that you have to be rude.

This appart... You said exactly this:

Again it isn't Apple's solution but rather comes from Intel. Apple is merely an early adopter. Firewire was adopted by dozens of corporations whose CEOs are responsible for managing in one year more money than you will ever see in your life.

The way you said it implied Apple was only one of the adopter of this technology... Nothing more (Interpretation I agree). And that's still wrong. Sorry if you don't like this fact.

[Apple] is commonly seen as the designer of this technology

Which is why Intel is listed as the designer on the wikipedia page, right?


That's simply wrong... It's Apple which is listed as the designer. Please read again (Right column with factual description):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_1394_interface

The last point wasn't a troll but rather a counterpoint to the claim that Apple always reinvents the wheel, as was claimed by the OP. You've already acknowledged that Apple has avoided reinventing the wheel. The reasons, be they financial or otherwise, are beside the point and absolutely irrelevant.

Really? Ok... It's a point of view.

P.S: I've acknowledged that apple avoided reinventing the wheel by adopting some standards... It was never a general statement about Apple's politic.

The fact is, I can run more software to include Linux, Windows, and Macintosh in a more integrated fashion than any other platform on the planet. .... This enables me to select the right tool for the job regardless of the job as I have all the tools at my disposal.

In my company we have about 500 workstations... Some of them are from Apple. The amount of problems with missing software, integration difficulties, compatibility of documents is really amazing.
Distrust me if you want, but I have much less problems finding the tools we need in our M$ environment.

If it's the right tool for you... I'm happy for you and will certainly not advise you to change. But you arn't the keeper of universal truth. For some(most?) professionals, Apple products simply don't fit their needs.

Whether it is for licensing or any other reasons, no other platform on Earth can claim to do what the Macintosh can do.

Morally and technically discutable. But I won't argue on that. I don't think you would discuss that statement rationally.


P.S: I'm not interested in flamewars and overall... I'm working. I hope you'll understand that I can't continue this discussion.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: Where's eSATA?
by _txf_ on Fri 1st Jul 2011 12:00 in reply to "RE[5]: Where's eSATA?"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

It's relevant to compare an upcoming technology to another upcoming technology, not to a legacy one.


Usb3,eSata and Firewire can do some of the things (most of?) Thunderbolt can do. However there are things such as external gfx cards that only Thunderbolt can do effectively. Sony is using this same tech in the new Z series laptops (but are shoving it in a usb connector, so they cannot call it Thunderbolt)


I never said Apple wasn't involved in Firewire. I said Intel is the recognized designer of Thunderbolt, formerly known as Light Peak. Do your homework.

Please keep polite. It's not because you're safely hidden behind your iWhatever that you have to be rude.


I fail to see how calling you out for your failure to read is being rude.


Again it isn't Apple's solution but rather comes from Intel. Apple is merely an early adopter. Firewire was adopted by dozens of corporations whose CEOs are responsible for managing in one year more money than you will ever see in your life.

The way you said it implied Apple was only one of the adopter of this technology... Nothing more (Interpretation I agree). And that's still wrong. Sorry if you don't like this fact.


Ok, you seem not understand the subject of his commentary. He is talking about Light Peak/Thunderbolt not Firewire (the "it" clearly refers to TB). The second part was contesting that Firewire was only implemented by apple, that is wrong, it eventually made it PCs (lost rellevance beacause USB was already entrenched and "good enough" for most people).


[Apple] is commonly seen as the designer of this technology
Which is why Intel is listed as the designer on the wikipedia page, right?


That's simply wrong... It's Apple which is listed as the designer. Please read again


Again, Here he is talking about TB not firewire.


In my company we have about 500 workstations... Some of them are from Apple. The amount of problems with missing software, integration difficulties, compatibility of documents is really amazing.
Distrust me if you want, but I have much less problems finding the tools we need in our MS environment.


I believe he is implying that because he can run OSX, Linux AND Windows this gives him access to all software available, not that OSX has the most software (It clearly doesn't). Then again OSX does give you access to unix tools that aren't available in Windows (except via Cygwin?).

Edited 2011-07-01 12:07 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: Where's eSATA?
by novad on Fri 1st Jul 2011 14:59 in reply to "RE[6]: Where's eSATA?"
novad Member since:
2010-06-10

Usb3,eSata and Firewire can do some of the things (most of?) Thunderbolt can do. However there are things such as external gfx cards that only Thunderbolt can do effectively. Sony is using this same tech in the new Z series laptops (but are shoving it in a usb connector, so they cannot call it Thunderbolt)


OK... Interesting. As I said before I'll certainly check all this when I'll have a bit of time left.

I fail to see how calling you out for your failure to read is being rude.

Telling me I missunderstood is certainly not a problem... Especially as my english is far away from being good.
On the other side, putting stupid and condescending comments like "Do your homework" is certainly not something he would have said if I was sitting in front of him.

Ok, you seem not understand the subject of his commentary. He is talking about Light Peak/Thunderbolt not Firewire (the "it" clearly refers to TB).

OK with that (I never contested that part anyway)

The second part was contesting that Firewire was only implemented by apple, that is wrong, it eventually made it PCs (lost rellevance beacause USB was already entrenched and "good enough" for most people).

IF it's that he wanted to tell... Well. Then I probably missunderstood... I certainly agree that other brands also implemented it.

Again, Here he is talking about TB not firewire.

As much as I agree that I could have misunderstood the preceeding point I don't agree on this one...

He clearly answered to my statement that was also clearly about Firewire (I posted even twice the link to the corresponding page). And at this point pretending FW is not Apple's baby is simply not true (And he knows it).


I believe he is implying that because he can run OSX, Linux AND Windows this gives him access to all software available, not that OSX has the most software (It clearly doesn't). Then again OSX does give you access to unix tools that aren't available in Windows (except via Cygwin?).


Through virtualisation you have a lot of possibilities under any possible OS... That's why I totally agree with what (or how) YOU say it... The way he said it was quiet biased (Personal feeling).

Once again... As I said in my first post... English is not my native language. So if I missunderstand something, clarification is welcome.

Reply Parent Score: 1