Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 11th Jul 2011 21:34 UTC, submitted by sb56637
Legal Blah blah Apple whines about a bunch of software patents again. Go cry in a corner, Jobs. Either find a strategy that counters the rise of Android, or just suck it up and be a man about it. Oh, HTC is the target this time around. Again. Whatever.
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Find a strategy
by rhavyn on Mon 11th Jul 2011 23:13 UTC
rhavyn
Member since:
2005-07-06

Either find a strategy that counters the rise of Android


Apple is the #1 smartphone vendor in the U.S. by units sold: http://www.bgr.com/2011/07/11/apple-is-no-1-smartphone-vendor-in-u-...

Apple takes 50% of the entire handset industry profit worldwide: http://macdailynews.com/2011/07/08/analyst-apple-takes-50-of-handse...

Android's U.S. growth in 2011 is flat, iPhone is up: http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/06/30/nielsen-androids-growth-curv...

Apple is having no problem's competing in the marketplace, no matter how many times you claim they are.

Reply Score: -1

RE: Find a strategy
by Beta on Mon 11th Jul 2011 23:26 in reply to "Find a strategy"
Beta Member since:
2005-07-06

"Either find a strategy that counters the rise of Android


Apple is having no problem's competing in the marketplace, no matter how many times you claim they are.
"

Idiots are out in force, I see. You quote Thom saying that Apple needs to counter the rise of Android without underhanded methods. Like, producing a better phone. You may have read it as Thom saying Android reigns supreme. It may not now, but it nearly does, see below.

All your links are dubious.
Apple may by the single largest seller, but are they the single largest selling platform? No, that’s Android.

Apple may take the largest handset profit, all that highlights is they have a large profit margin per handset… we’re not all Apple investors, this doesn’t matter to us.

Android US growth is not flat, just look at these graphs from the raw US comScore data. http://www.catb.org/esr/comscore/ It’s "flat" at 2% m/m growth?!

If they had no problem competing, they would not be suing companies for patent infringement and approaching the ITC to get products blocked from entering the US.

Reply Parent Score: 9

RE[2]: Find a strategy
by rhavyn on Mon 11th Jul 2011 23:43 in reply to "RE: Find a strategy"
rhavyn Member since:
2005-07-06

"[q]Either find a strategy that counters the rise of Android


Apple is having no problem's competing in the marketplace, no matter how many times you claim they are.
"

Idiots are out in force, I see. You quote Thom saying that Apple needs to counter the rise of Android without underhanded methods. Like, producing a better phone. You may have read it as Thom saying Android reigns supreme. It may not now, but it nearly does, see below. [/q]

I eagerly await your response.


All your links are dubious.


Well, that's quite the let down for a response, maybe we'll get to the meat later.

Apple may by the single largest seller, but are they the single largest selling platform? No, that’s Android.


Oh, so Apple is unsuccessful because six or seven other companies combined beat them in sales. That's convincing. (Also, I note the lack of any link to back that up, show us the iOS vs Android numbers to prove your point .. and you said platform so remember to include the iPad)

Apple may take the largest handset profit, all that highlights is they have a large profit margin per handset… we’re not all Apple investors, this doesn’t matter to us.


So we'll just ignore how business' define success and use our own metric. I mean, look at Motorola, they sell Andriod (the highest selling platform per you) and they're loosing money. Clearly that's the way to go.

Android US growth is not flat, just look at these graphs from the raw US comScore data. http://www.catb.org/esr/comscore/ It’s "flat" at 2% m/m growth?!


You're comparing two different things. The comscore measure shows sales grown, the Neilsen number shows acquisition growth. Apple is growing by gaining more new smartphone users, Android just has a lot of repeat customers.

If they had no problem competing, they would not be suing companies for patent infringement and approaching the ITC to get products blocked from entering the US.


Or, in the real world, Apple is using all of the tools at it's disposal which would include intellectual property. Anyone who is claiming that Apple is failing in the market is an idiot, full stop. It takes 6 companies and god knows how many products to compete with Apple and their 2 devices (both over a year old now). I know Apple haters hate that Apple is successful but they are the most successful cell phone company out there by any business measure.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Find a strategy
by JAlexoid on Mon 11th Jul 2011 23:36 in reply to "Find a strategy"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

1) If they don't feel threatened, why are they fighting with HTC? Suing you competitors is a sign of weakness. Though I can understand the trade dress lawsuit against Samsung.

2) Are you a shareholder? Who the *** cares about how much Apple makes. It's great that they make more off their customers. That means they have a good business. Nothing else. Retire that argument, it's useless...

3) And yet Android results in 11% more than iPhone still... And it's not falling.

They are whiners because when they get hit with patent infringement lawsuits, you can't stop hearing how bad the patents are. But when it comes to their own...

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Find a strategy
by Soulbender on Mon 11th Jul 2011 23:51 in reply to "RE: Find a strategy"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

They are whiners because when they get hit with patent infringement lawsuits, you can't stop hearing how bad the patents are. But when it comes to their own...


In all fairness, this kind of attitude is not unique to Apple. "Government intervention is bad....unless it favors my company then it is for the good of everyone", "Regulation is bad....unless it favors my company then it's for the good of everyone" etc etc etc.

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE[2]: Find a strategy
by rhavyn on Tue 12th Jul 2011 15:16 in reply to "RE: Find a strategy"
rhavyn Member since:
2005-07-06

1) If they don't feel threatened, why are they fighting with HTC? Suing you competitors is a sign of weakness. Though I can understand the trade dress lawsuit against Samsung.


Do you believe that competing is a sign of weakness? Do you think HTC wouldn't be filing lawsuits against Apple if they felt it would help their business? Anyone who thinks that filing lawsuits isn't just another part of business isn't living in reality. This is how things have been done for 100s of years.

2) Are you a shareholder? Who the *** cares about how much Apple makes. It's great that they make more off their customers. That means they have a good business. Nothing else. Retire that argument, it's useless...


If Thom wants to talk about successful competition then pointing out that Apple is the most profitable cell phone company in the world is hugely important. How do you propose we measure the success of a business, by taking a poll?

3) And yet Android results in 11% more than iPhone still... And it's not falling.


Which is irrelevant as to whether or not Apple is successfully competing. By any rational measure they are extremely successful in the cell phone business.

They are whiners because when they get hit with patent infringement lawsuits, you can't stop hearing how bad the patents are. But when it comes to their own...


So this is all a matter of you being butthurt because Apple doesn't say exactly what you want them to say. And, honestly, I see no real hypocrisy in complaining about what you see as bad patents even if you support patents in general, which is what I believe you mostly hear from Apple. The fact that you believe Apple's patents are also bad still doesn't make they hypocrites.

Really, it'd be a lot easier if someone put up a "we hate business" banner somewhere on this site so that it's clear we're not even trying to have a rational discussion.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Find a strategy
by molnarcs on Tue 12th Jul 2011 04:48 in reply to "Find a strategy"
molnarcs Member since:
2005-09-10

"Either find a strategy that counters the rise of Android


Apple is the #1 smartphone vendor in the U.S. by units sold: http://www.bgr.com/2011/07/11/apple-is-no-1-smartphone-vendor-in-u-...

...

Apple is having no problem's competing in the marketplace, no matter how many times you claim they are.
"

If you were not so US centric, you'd see the writing on the wall, just like Apple does. There are countries where their market collapsed. Yes, vanished. They went from a 70% market share in Korea to basically 1-2%, while Android got itself a 95% market share. Check the trends in Taiwan and Japan as well. These are all "early-adopter" markets - trend setters, so to speak, especially in Asia.

This also tells quite a different story from NIELSEN:
http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_os-US-monthly-201007-201105

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE[2]: Find a strategy
by rhavyn on Tue 12th Jul 2011 15:29 in reply to "RE: Find a strategy"
rhavyn Member since:
2005-07-06

"[q]Either find a strategy that counters the rise of Android


Apple is the #1 smartphone vendor in the U.S. by units sold: http://www.bgr.com/2011/07/11/apple-is-no-1-smartphone-vendor-in-u-...

...

Apple is having no problem's competing in the marketplace, no matter how many times you claim they are.
"

If you were not so US centric, you'd see the writing on the wall, just like Apple does. There are countries where their market collapsed. Yes, vanished. They went from a 70% market share in Korea to basically 1-2%, while Android got itself a 95% market share. Check the trends in Taiwan and Japan as well. These are all "early-adopter" markets - trend setters, so to speak, especially in Asia. [/q]

Except, those are all made up numbers. The most recent data I could find shows iOS has 26.5% of the Korean market: http://nielsfootman.com/android-winner-korea-smartphone-boom/
And Korea, specifically, it's difficult to say much because smartphone penetration is very low (only 18% of registers phones there are smartphones, approximately 10 million units total), new device releases can cause massive swings in market share.

In Japan the iPhone makes up 38% of the market and is the single best selling phone: http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-05-10/android-handsets-surpas....

I'm not going to bother looking Taiwan's numbers since it's pretty clear you didn't bother to either.

This also tells quite a different story from NIELSEN:
http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_os-US-monthly-201007-201105


Which is funny because that graph shows Android growth has been flat since March.

But, hey, post something with completely made up numbers that fits what the people moderating here want to see and get voted up. So congrats on that.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Find a strategy
by aldo on Tue 12th Jul 2011 11:10 in reply to "Find a strategy"
aldo Member since:
2010-02-17

Apple takes 50% of the entire handset industry profit worldwide:


iPhone owners always seem to be harping on about how much profit Apple makes from them, but they never seem to stop and consider that this might mean that they're being ripped off when they buy their phones.

Reply Parent Score: 6