Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 11th Jul 2011 21:34 UTC, submitted by sb56637
Legal Blah blah Apple whines about a bunch of software patents again. Go cry in a corner, Jobs. Either find a strategy that counters the rise of Android, or just suck it up and be a man about it. Oh, HTC is the target this time around. Again. Whatever.
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RE[2]: Patent Troll?
by ourcomputerbloke on Tue 12th Jul 2011 00:16 UTC in reply to "RE: Patent Troll?"
ourcomputerbloke
Member since:
2011-05-12

Like improving products, lowering prices or who knows maybe even innovation.


Improve products to be equivalent of the Android things that the iDevices are consistently getting better quality reviews than?

Lower prices to be less than the equivalent devices that they're already on par with, or better than, in most markets?

Innovate like Google did to get to that position? What innovations would that be?

Or maybe, just maybe it's got something ever so minor to do with Google owning the internet advertising space and there being ads for Android devices on every second page that's being viewed by the demographic that's mainly buying them? Not to mention prime time TV which is being flooded with them.

Combine the advertising budget of Google, HTC, Samsung, etc with the I'm getting one of these because everyone else has one of those mentality of young people and the I hate Apple's walled garden so I'm getting one of these group, and you have a pretty clear answer to the rise of Android. It's got absolutely zero to do with quality, price (except at the junky low end) or innovation.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Patent Troll?
by Alfman on Tue 12th Jul 2011 03:37 in reply to "RE[2]: Patent Troll?"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

ourcomputerbloke,

"Combine the advertising budget of Google, HTC, Samsung, etc with the I'm getting one of these because everyone else has one of those mentality of young people"

But don't discount the fact that apple advertises very heavily also.

"I hate Apple's walled garden so I'm getting one of these group, and you have a pretty clear answer to the rise of Android. It's got absolutely zero to do with quality, price (except at the junky low end) or innovation."


Well, you could include quality problems like the iphone grip of death...but I'm just pulling your leg.

The apple walled garden is a legitimate reason for customers to avoid apple. If this is causing apple to loose market share, then maybe they should change their offering to align with what more people want.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[4]: Patent Troll?
by CaptainN- on Wed 13th Jul 2011 22:13 in reply to "RE[3]: Patent Troll?"
CaptainN- Member since:
2005-07-07

Apple as a single company is growing the fastest of the lot. But they can't compete against a whole industry for market share.

That said, patents exist exactly to protect invention IP. The real question is whether they should apply to software - and the real answer to that is easy. Software is written, often iteratively, not invented. It already gets copyright protection (and a kind of defacto trade secret protection too), which is more than adequate. It doesn't also need patent protection.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Patent Troll?
by Lennie on Tue 12th Jul 2011 07:42 in reply to "RE[2]: Patent Troll?"
Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

I don't know what Thom's thoughts are, I was trying to be helpful.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Patent Troll?
by d-signet on Tue 12th Jul 2011 09:49 in reply to "RE[2]: Patent Troll?"
d-signet Member since:
2011-05-03

are you seriously suggesting that android users have more of a herd mentality than apple users?

that IS funny.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: Patent Troll?
by Laurence on Tue 12th Jul 2011 09:51 in reply to "RE[2]: Patent Troll?"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

Going by the number of factual inaccuracies you've posted, I'm getting the distinct impression that you're either a touch biased on this subject or haven't properly research your subject.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but there's a lot I should challenge you on:


Innovate like Google did to get to that position? What innovations would that be?

Android handsets had digital compasses before the iPhones
Android handsets had AR apps before the iPhones
Google also have their product suite, some of which had more functionality or new functionality sooner than on the iPhone

Android also had basic features such as copy/paste, MMS and multi-tasking years before the iOS.

Then there's a whole host of 3rd party apps that wouldn't even be permitted on the App Store at the time (different browser rendering engines, software emulation, mature content (and I'm not just referring to porn) and so on.

And finally, from a geeks perspective, Google haven't tried to criminalise their customers with rooted phones like Apple tried with the jailbreak community.

Now I'm not about to say that any of the above (except perhaps AR) is really all that "innovative". But then I wouldn't really class much (if anything) that Apple have done to the iPhone as "innovative" either. Both companies have just created equally evolutionary devices. Neither one stands out as being more "innovative" than the other.


Or maybe, just maybe it's got something ever so minor to do with Google owning the internet advertising space and there being ads for Android devices on every second page that's being viewed by the demographic that's mainly buying them? Not to mention prime time TV which is being flooded with them.

That's just silly conspiracy nonsense.

The reason Android has succeeded is because of 3 reasons:
* not everyone wants an iPhone
* Android was the next best OS at the time as everything else majorly sucked (though personally even then I preferred it to the iPhones firmware, but that's purely personal opinion)
* OEMs could bundle Android to their own handsets cheaply so did so readily

Besides, Apple users can't comment in the slightest about advertising given how massively advertised the iPhone was and how epically Apple hype up the product launches. No other electronic device in history has been hyped, advertised and promoted as heavily as the iPhone has.


Combine the advertising budget of Google, HTC, Samsung, etc with the I'm getting one of these because everyone else has one of those mentality of young people and the I hate Apple's walled garden so I'm getting one of these group, and you have a pretty clear answer to the rise of Android.

As I said above, their combined advertising is still a drop in the ocean compared to the PR Apple generate for the iPhone.

As for the "walled garden" comment, I'd wager that less than 5% of Android users globally opted for Android over iOS for that reason. In fact I'd wager that less than 5% even know what you meant by Apples "walled garden" if they were to read your post. The simple fact is most users don't understand nor care in the slightest. They just want their hardware to work. Clearly this is something Android succeeded at despite the Apple camp parading the myth that only Apple are capable of creating "it just works" devices.

And finally the "I'm getting one of these because everyone else has one" only applies after Android has already become the popular platform - so it's completely moot as it doesn't prove Androids rise. Furthermore, Android handsets are nowhere near as "cool" to own as the iPhone is. So I'm not even sure your point is valid in the current mobile climate.

It's got absolutely zero to do with quality, price (except at the junky low end) or innovation.

Wrong, if Android was crap quality then it wouldn't have sold nearly as well as it has. We've all seen arguably lesser smartphone OSs slide down the market shares: WM6.x, Symbian, etc. If Android was really that poor then people simply wouldn't have migrated from other platforms to Android.

Wrong again, price has been shown to be a deciding factor for many consumers. However just as many Android handsets are also sold that are nearly as expensive as iPhones.

and finally you end on something that is correct - lack of innovation.
Now let's be honest here, neither Apple nor Google have really innovated. They both took existing ideas and improved it a little. All this talk about Apple inventing multi-touch or having all the cool new smartphone features / apps before any other competing platform is pure bullshit. Apple have beaten Google to the goal post with some features, Google have beaten Apple with others. There really isn't much to separate the two.

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE[4]: Patent Troll?
by Neolander on Tue 12th Jul 2011 15:47 in reply to "RE[3]: Patent Troll?"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Don't waste your time ;) As noticed before by someone else (twitterfire IIRC), ourcomputerbloke is mrhasbean's new incarnation. He won't read nor reply.

Edited 2011-07-12 15:51 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: Patent Troll?
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Tue 12th Jul 2011 14:30 in reply to "RE[2]: Patent Troll?"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Their success or lack of success in the marketplace is not an excuse for their messed up stance on patents. It doesn't matter if they are winning or losing, they're still trying to cheat. Just like Nixon, they're miserable when out of power, paranoid when in power and always looking to get any advantage regardless of the legality of it.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Patent Troll?
by fran on Tue 12th Jul 2011 16:10 in reply to "RE[2]: Patent Troll?"
fran Member since:
2010-08-06

Android saw light of day 2005 and in the same year was acquired by Google. The first iphone saw light of day 2007.

The other day I heard a TV presenter on a major news channel spoke about iphone being thee revolutionary device. ..The first real smart phone that everyone is copying. This is not true.
Although iphone is a great product it was not the first of its kind and there was a host of features Android had other mobile os's only recently got or still don’t have.

About your blanket statement about android devices being bad quality..This is false.
Android comes in many jackets and from many companies. Hell even the US army is planning Android devices.

You don’t have to use the Google on Android and you don’t even have to use the Google browser on it, you can install Opera Mini or a host of others. Android does not restrict you in this way. The add aspect is also very low profile. Gmail for example has very low profile add serving. Other free email clients I saw had lots of big slow loading banner adds that is irritating.

Google is an advertising company but an unusual one.
An advertising company that is enabling people and sponsoring open source and other projects in a big way.

I've read some of your comments over time, and your degree of hatred seems unusual. I can only hope that you become open to reason.
Google is the nr. 1 advertising company but it does not force you to use it's search engine.In the end there was going to be a add market leader. Better it be Google.

Edited 2011-07-12 16:27 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2