Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 19th Jul 2011 17:09 UTC
Google For the first time, Google has opened its mouth against the patent trolling by Apple (and by proxy, Microsoft) against Android manufacturers. By way of Eric Schmidt, Google's chairman, the company took stand against the legal actions, and stated they aren't too worried. If need be, Google will ensure HTC doesn't lose the patent case against Apple.
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Apple does Innovate
by jrash on Tue 19th Jul 2011 17:26 UTC
jrash
Member since:
2008-10-28

Apple does innovate, it's just that they don't want anyone else to.

Reply Score: 6

RE: Apple does Innovate
by tupp on Tue 19th Jul 2011 17:29 in reply to "Apple does Innovate"
tupp Member since:
2006-11-12

Please list Apple's innovations.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Apple does Innovate
by helf on Tue 19th Jul 2011 17:33 in reply to "RE: Apple does Innovate"
helf Member since:
2005-07-06

Please list googles innovations... Or HTCs, or *

"Innovation" is a fairly loose term open to peoples interpretations.

I wouldn't start this, its just a haven for trolls.

Reply Parent Score: 10

RE[2]: Apple does Innovate
by moochris on Tue 19th Jul 2011 18:01 in reply to "RE: Apple does Innovate"
moochris Member since:
2009-03-20

The Reality Distortion Field™

Reply Parent Score: 12

RE[2]: Apple does Innovate
by Jennimc on Tue 19th Jul 2011 18:32 in reply to "RE: Apple does Innovate"
Jennimc Member since:
2011-06-22

So that you know... innovate does not mean invent.... it means to make changes and improve something established.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Apple does Innovate
by jrash on Tue 19th Jul 2011 21:04 in reply to "RE: Apple does Innovate"
jrash Member since:
2008-10-28

Please list Apple's innovations.

They invented computers and the cell phone, duh!

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Apple does Innovate
by viton on Wed 20th Jul 2011 01:39 in reply to "RE: Apple does Innovate"
viton Member since:
2005-08-09

What do you mean? There are a zillion of ideas behind a real product. Some are old, some new, some are common knowledge.

Apple "innovation factor" is reflected in a cash flow, as people purchase the Apple products that differs from competitors in a novel ways, thus innovative.

Also you can count a number of copycats, who dump a lot of similar products after fresh Apples's stuff?
This list includes all serious companies, not just obscure chinese basement factories.

Anyway, I wish that someone wiped the ass with Apple and Microsoft in these dirty patent deals.

Edited 2011-07-20 01:42 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Apple does Innovate
by lucas_maximus on Wed 20th Jul 2011 08:40 in reply to "RE: Apple does Innovate"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Apple do innovate ... they don't however invent.

Innovation isn't about advancing tech or anything else ... it is taking an already existing concept that should work but doesn't.

iPod, and iPhone are good examples ...

Smart phones were a bit rubbish before the iPhone came out ... MP3 players were a bit rubbish before the iPod came out.

The only reason my desire is as good as it is ... is because HTC had to compete with the better iPhone.

Edited 2011-07-20 08:42 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

v RE: Apple does Innovate
by Jennimc on Tue 19th Jul 2011 18:18 in reply to "Apple does Innovate"
RE[2]: Apple does Innovate
by JAlexoid on Tue 19th Jul 2011 19:42 in reply to "RE: Apple does Innovate"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Since Apple holds some of the most basic patents in computing, I would say that they don't want anyone else to innovate.
You probably heard of "If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants".
Apple's unwillingness to license out those patents* just makes it impossible for people that want to truly innovate (the most striking example is the 5,946,647 patent). Thankfully those patents haven't actually stopped innovators from doing their "jobs".

* - The are not really known to license out the patents, but they do cross-licensing deals. Exceptions being patents in standards that require FRAND patent rules.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Apple does Innovate
by fithisux on Tue 19th Jul 2011 19:25 in reply to "Apple does Innovate"
fithisux Member since:
2006-01-22

Apple doesn't even release a Darwin CD anymore or support Open-Gnu Darwins. Xorg+Gnome could not harm Apple.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Apple does Innovate
by somebody on Tue 19th Jul 2011 19:30 in reply to "Apple does Innovate"
somebody Member since:
2005-07-07

and all innovations are either blatantly transparent, dumb or stolen.

one example of apple inventing something is this article
http://gettys.wordpress.com/2011/07/18/apple-patents-portrait-lands...
where author describes prior art damn well

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Apple does Innovate
by galvanash on Wed 20th Jul 2011 05:26 in reply to "RE: Apple does Innovate"
galvanash Member since:
2006-01-25

This is claim one from that patent (7,978,176). The bold parts are the interesting bits.

A computer-implemented method, comprising: at a portable multifunction device with a touch screen display and one or more accelerometers, displaying information on the touch screen display in a portrait view or a landscape view based on an analysis of data received from the one or more accelerometers; detecting a predetermined finger gesture on or near the touch screen display while the information is displayed in a first view, wherein the first view is one of the portrait view and the landscape view; in response to detecting the predetermined finger gesture, displaying the information in a second view and locking the display of information in the second view, wherein the second view is the other of the portrait view and the landscape view; and unlocking the display of information in the second view in response to a determination that the device is placed in an orientation where the second view matches an orientation of the display based on an analysis of data received from the one or more accelerometers.


His prior art does not apply... at all (he updated his post and admitted as much). Lets break this down:

1. Does this patent claim apply to the use of accelerometers to determine screen orientation? No
2. Does this patent claim apply to automatic orientation changes in and of themselves? No
3. Does this patent claim apply to a non-touch screen device? No
4. Does this patent apply to a touch screen device with automatic screen orientation detection based on accelerometers that uses a gesture system to both override the current screen orientation and lock the new orientation based on the use of a specific gesture and do the reverse process? YES

As far as I am aware there is no prior art for this at all (nothing I have ever seen anyway). It isn't even implemented in iOS yet. There is nothing infringing on it either (unless someone has seen this implemented before).

Is this innovative? I personally don't think so. There is nothing new here except the gesture bit, and that is kind of obvious in my opinion. Again, this points out the problems with the patent system, you can add one obvious thing to something everyone is already doing and you get to claim it as your own. Why should Apple "own" the idea of a gesture that switches/locks orientation? Is this not extremely obvious? Its probably something that most iOS or Android users have thought of at one time or another...

I take a difference stance from most on this - I want to see patent law reformed, I don't have a pet company. I don't take Apple or Microsoft or Google or whoever using patents as baseball bats a sign of bad behavior - it is a sign of a bad system. Blaming companies with power, money, and talent for taking advantage of the patent system is exactly like blaming people (rich or poor) for taking advantage of the tax system to save themselves money...

As long as the system is setup to let them do so they will take advantage of it. You can't setup a system like this and expect good behavior... Its like the government saying "Hey look guys, if you do this and this and this you get this shiny gold carrot over here - it perfectly legal, the rules are even setup to encourage it.. But it might be unpopular with those pesky people hung up over morality since it doesn't jive with what most people consider good behavior, so do whatever you makes you sleep better at night." How do you expect things to turn out?

Reply Parent Score: 2

And where is the trolling?
by aliquis on Sun 24th Jul 2011 06:49 in reply to "Apple does Innovate"
aliquis Member since:
2005-07-23

Where is the trolling?

I assume it's "innovation" / patents actually used in Apple products they sue about? And if so I don't see the trolling. If they just patented for the sake of patenting then maybe. Now they are just using the patent system for what it's supposed to be used for. Even though it suck.

Blame the patent system and not Apple.


Blame Apple for everything else.

Reply Parent Score: 2