Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 21st Jul 2011 14:10 UTC, submitted by Jennimc
Mozilla & Gecko clones "Over the last couple of weeks, Mozilla has finally stepped up its 64-bit testing process. There are now five slaves dedicated to building Firefox for Windows x64, which means that from Firefox 8 and onwards, you'll be able to pick up 64-bit builds that are functionally identical to its 32-bit cousins but operating in native 64-bit CPU and memory space." Th 64bit version is about 10% faster, benchmarks show.
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RE: Old news
by andih on Thu 21st Jul 2011 22:36 UTC in reply to "Old news"
andih
Member since:
2010-03-27

lol yeah agree ;)

I really don’t get what people see in windows anyway.. Windows is for noobs, really! Its designed for people needing only very basic functionality. Allright, you might get some advanced things done by:
¤Searching for useful apps on piratebay or something (and maybe catching a rootkit in the attempt). But its slow, risky, and the chances that you have to commit piracy to make stubborn windoze do what you like, is big.
¤Paying extra to MS or some 3rd party for using their solutions

In linux, a world of possibilities is just an aptitude (portage or whatever) and a .conf away! Fast, powerful, easy, and secure.. and even free! People that are still using windows must have very basic and standard needs or simply doesn’t know any better.

After I switched to linux I never download pirated SW. No need for that using linux. Piracy is a windows thing. Funny then that the companies that by all means want to stop SW piracy are the same that also probably would like to see linux and OSS dead. (Although they might not want to admit it)

Well, its about time that windows tries to catch up using 64bit. I lol when browsing VLSC and users are encouraged strongly to go for the 32bits version of MS office 2010 even on new 64 bits win7. wow,, Its 2011 and 64bit isn't exactly new.. well for other OSes at least. :p

Windows is strangly enough still popular and used all over.. but "popular" != "good",, Dvorak and Querty is a good example for that. Or Bush and Ron Paul :p
Even though i loathe windows, I guess it still has its uses.. for somebody at least, or that it seems.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Old news
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Thu 21st Jul 2011 22:59 in reply to "RE: Old news"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Please, no more references to R*n P**l. I'd like one site where I can pretend intelligent people don't agree with him.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Old news
by Spiron on Fri 22nd Jul 2011 01:39 in reply to "RE: Old news"
Spiron Member since:
2011-03-08

You're either an idiot or a troll, cause last time i checked a hell of a lot of the market leaders in software, thinking Photoshop and Maya, run on windows and not natively on linux. As to your comments about piracy, most users don't commit it, and don't need to. If you really need to then its a relatively fast process thanks to BitTorrent. And just so you know most people can make windows do what i want without EVER having to go to ThePirateBay. there are programs out there that aren't open-source but are free that give you easy access to advanced usage of Windows.

And unless you've really been living under a rock for the last 5 years you would know that Windows supports 64bit, and its rather good actually. Microsoft cannot be held responsible for the mozilla foundation not wanting to port firefox to 64bit windows. IE has been 64 bit since Win7, so essentially 2008 if you include prebuilds and beta's.

There are many reason why Windows is still popular, the main one being that people are used to it. They have used it at home for the last 15 years and in buisnesses for around the same time and people like what is familiar. There are other reasons, like the stigma's attached to linux and other alternate OS's, for example Linux still being viewed as the 'nerds' os and thus people either thinking they are not smart enough for it OR them holding nerds in contempt. Another example is that there are stigma's against free-stuff and quality, but that is a seperate disscussion. And you comment about keyboard layouts is irrelevant. No-one uses Dvorak because it never caught on. Neither is superior than the other. It's purely a matter of preferance.

And before you start campaigning against me as an open-source banger who is also a Microsoft fanboi, I just want you to know that i used ArchLinux and Gentoo as my main OS's, so i see more terminal and config-file work than you on your debian-based system do.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Old news
by smitty on Fri 22nd Jul 2011 02:31 in reply to "RE[2]: Old news"
smitty Member since:
2005-10-13

Microsoft cannot be held responsible for the mozilla foundation not wanting to port firefox to 64bit windows.

It has been "ported" for years, it just was never officially released or supported.

IE has been 64 bit since Win7, so essentially 2008 if you include prebuilds and beta's.

True, although no one uses it. And with IE9 the javascript compiler only works in the 32bit version, so performance is about 10x better in the 32bit version than the 64bit one which still interprets all the javascript code.


Adobe and Flash are the primary reasons that 64bit browsers aren't common on windows. It seems that the success of Windows 7 64bit have encouraged a lot of different plugin makers to create 64bit ports that are suddenly getting finished this year or next, so it's a good time for Mozilla to start looking into it as well.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Old news
by lemur2 on Fri 22nd Jul 2011 03:03 in reply to "RE[2]: Old news"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

You're either an idiot or a troll, cause last time i checked a hell of a lot of the market leaders in software, thinking Photoshop and Maya, run on windows and not natively on linux.


This is, of course, a limitation of the software you mention (Photoshop and Maya), it is not a limitation of Linux.

For example, people used to disparage Linux for having no support for professional CAD, it didn't run AutoCAD. Well, now there is a professional CAD application for Linux.

http://www.bricsys.com/en_INTL/bricscad/index.jsp
http://www.bricsys.com/en_INTL/bricscad/comparison.jsp

There is still no Linux version of AutoCAD, but understand that this is a failing of Autodesk (who make AutoCAD), and not Linux per se.

As for Photoshop, meh ... if you want to manage digital photography on Linux use digikam, and if you want to create raster graphics, use krita. 99% of people wouldn't miss out on a single thing, except of course for the significant cost of a Photoshop license.

http://www.digikam.org/drupal/about?q=about/features
http://krita.org/features

Enjoy.

unless you've really been living under a rock for the last 5 years you would know that Windows supports 64bit, and its rather good actually.


Not really. Microsoft doesn't own the source code for many, many Windows drivers, the hardware OEMs do. If the nice, expensive laser printer model you have owned for quite some years happens to be out of production now, but it still works perfectly, and you upgrade to 64-bit Windows, there is a strong risk you may have to scrap your printer.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-hardware...

It happens with a variety of hardware, not just printers:

http://www.w7forums.com/no-64-bit-driver-workaround-t5505.html

IE has been 64 bit since Win7, so essentially 2008 if you include prebuilds and beta's.


Javascript performance is horribly broken in 64-bit IE.

http://ironvine.com/blog/index.php/archives/ie9-browser-wars/
"So, what’s the conclusion? Simple, IE9 64-bit is shockingly bad, and all the other browsers are, on the whole, pretty evenly matched."

Just keeping it real here.

Edited 2011-07-22 03:21 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: Old news
by lemur2 on Fri 22nd Jul 2011 04:20 in reply to "RE[2]: Old news"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Another example is that there are stigma's against free-stuff and quality, but that is a seperate disscussion.


IE is free.

Firefox 8 is leaner and faster.

http://www.techdrivein.com/2011/07/firefox-8-is-20-faster-than-fire...
"According to a recent study by extremetech.com, Firefox 8 is already 20% faster than Firefox 5 in almost every metric and has got a drastically reduced memory footprint as well."

http://www.extremetech.com/internet/89570-firefox-8-is-20-faster-th...

Considering that Firefox 4/5 was/is about level pegging when it comes to performance compared with Chrome, Opera and IE9, this is about to get interesting. Chrome 14 is also reportedly a speed improvement. However, the interesting bit for me is that I can't wait to see where desperate Firefox bashers are going to try to disparage Firefox next.

If judgement-ability-challenged people really do think that "free is rubbish", then they seriously need a re-think, especially when it comes to software.

Edited 2011-07-22 04:24 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Old news
by zima on Fri 22nd Jul 2011 07:22 in reply to "RE[2]: Old news"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

last time i checked a hell of a lot of the market leaders in software, thinking Photoshop and Maya, run on windows and not natively on linux.

Last time? In which millennium was that?

http://usa.autodesk.com/maya/system-requirements/ "For 64-bit Autodesk Maya 2012"
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9653
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/4803

As to your comments about piracy, most users don't commit it

That's an awfully broad statement to make, have anything to back it up?

For my part I can say that in a place which, while not great, is still among the finest to live in (ex Comecon, late EU memberstate) ...it's damn hard to find a personal computer which wouldn't have something pirated on it (nvm how few short years ago this typically included OS - uptake of inexpensive laptops mostly fixed that; though still not as rapidly as expected, even machines from big manufacturers came with such smokescreens as "DOS2000" or a Linux liveCD/DVD - typically not-really-functional one / ignoring the hardware of the machine, drivers / not even booting to X).

And most places are definitely less prosperous than mine. Most PC users probably live in them; not in yours.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Old news
by andih on Fri 22nd Jul 2011 11:30 in reply to "RE[2]: Old news"
andih Member since:
2010-03-27

You say you have used gentoo as main system? What are you using now? Windows? omgwtf, what happened?

And unless you've really been living under a rock for the last 5 years you would know that Windows supports 64bit, and its rather good actually.

Sure, but it took its time. MS still suggest using 32bit for a lot of MS programs. ;)

There are many reason why Windows is still popular, the main one being that people are used to it.

Congrats, that was exactly my point.
Its popular because people are used to it, not because its good. Just as querty vs dvorak! If you really believe that dvorak is not a hugely improved for use on modern keyboards, you have clearly not tried it or know anything about it. If you use a early 1900 typewriter, your point is valid though :p You know why querty became standard I guess? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Typebars.jpg

As you say people like whats familiar so querty will still be the most used keyboard for many years to come. Windows too, sucking (or not).
Dvorak querty comparison was not irrelevant as you probably see. I was trying to underline that popular is not the same as good.. and I see we agree ;)

To anybody wanting to try dvorak:
setxkbmap dvorak
or for dvorak in on other than standard "en":
setxkbmap -layout LANGUAGE -variant dvorak


There are other reasons, like the stigma's attached to linux and other alternate OS's, for example Linux still being viewed as the 'nerds' os and thus people either thinking they are not smart enough for it OR them holding nerds in contempt. Another example is that there are stigma's against free-stuff and quality, but that is a seperate disscussion.

Well said. I couldnt agree more. It's sad though, I really hope this changes.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Old news
by bassbeast on Sat 23rd Jul 2011 10:49 in reply to "RE[2]: Old news"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

I'll get hate for daring to say this but WTH. You wanna know why Linux has a bad rep? As a retailer I'll be happy to tell you and that is because the DRIVERS SUCK and as long as Torvalds is in charge it'll stay that way!

OSX, BSD, Windows, Solaris, even OS/2, what do these have in common? A stable hardware ABI and guess what? The drivers WORK. As someone on this very site once told me "When drivers fail on Linux geeks just get a knowing smile and say 'yeah it does that, you need to' followed by a big pile of CLI gunk" and THAT is the problem! Do you think I can afford to give away support for life, or that my customers would be happy when the 6 month upgrade death march takes out their sound? Hell there isn't even a "roll back drivers" button which Windows has had for a fricking decade! And NO actual home users will NOT go trawl your forums, nor will they mess with huge CLI messes!

Honestly I like Linux, I really do. It has several nice GUIs, plenty of free software, but frankly my customers can get that same free software on Windows WITHOUT all the broken drivers! The sad part? It isn't a technical problem, it is ego and dogma. Linus said in 93 he didn't like ABIs because they wouldn't let him do whatever he wanted with the kernel. That was fine in 93 when the only ones using Linux besides him was a few geeks on IRC, but it ain't 1993 anymore!

You have an OS that updates at frankly an INSANE pace yet something as fundamental as drivers is horribly broken! Yet many in the community will support Linus being an @ss because "ZOMG somebody might release a non free driver ZOMG!" while ignoring that companies like Nvidia ALREADY release non free drivers, that doesn't stop devs from releasing free drivers. As it is now a company either throws themselves on the mercy of the kernel devs (unacceptable) or they have to "pull an Nvidia" and keep an entire team of devs who do NOTHING but constantly fix the problems Linus' kernel tweaking causes. Or they can just choose the third option which is to ignore your OS. Hmmm...which do you think most will choose?

I don't like paying for Windows licenses and I would love to give my customers the choice of Linux or Windows. But until I can get a minimum of 7 years of support WITHOUT the upgrade death march (this is around half of Windows support cycles BTW) or you have a stable ABI to where upgrades can happen without borking drivers? Then sadly I can't carry your product. I have a rep to maintain and selling machines that break every 6 months doesn't help it any. No sale.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Old news
by BluenoseJake on Fri 22nd Jul 2011 12:42 in reply to "RE: Old news"
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

I've never had to use piracy to make Windows do what I like, between OSS software and MS's own software available for free (Express editions of VS and SQL Server, for example) , but hey, if you need to find a rationalization for your piracy, it's cool, perhaps you just didn't know better.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Old news
by andih on Mon 25th Jul 2011 10:23 in reply to "RE[2]: Old news"
andih Member since:
2010-03-27

Was using windoze at that time, that explains it all.. lol

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Old news
by BallmerKnowsBest on Mon 25th Jul 2011 11:52 in reply to "RE: Old news"
BallmerKnowsBest Member since:
2008-06-02

lol yeah agree ;)

I really don’t get what people see in windows anyway.. Windows is for noobs, really!


As opposed to Linux, which is apparently for semi-literate teenagers who believe that "lol" is punctuation.

Reply Parent Score: 2