Linked by V. Deseinture on Fri 29th Jul 2011 20:50 UTC
Mandriva, Mandrake, Lycoris Unlike Apple and Microsoft, and despite numerous demands from their users, Linux distributions have been traditionally unable to directly ship the popular Adobe Flash Player with their packages, due to the closed source nature of the software and the restrictive license chosen by Adobe. While it does seems shorter than a regular EULA made by Microsoft with all the legalese that goes with it, it does still restrict redistribution in most cases, and the FAQ seemed to be clear about that point.
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RE[2]: ...
by Gullible Jones on Sat 30th Jul 2011 01:27 UTC in reply to "RE: ..."
Gullible Jones
Member since:
2006-05-23

Except that in this case, much of the internet won't work at all without it. And yes, we can whine all we want about how dumb that is - overuse of Flash is dumb - but that won't change the situation, at least not for a while.

IMO we need functionality by default, not ideology. Proprietary software may be inconvenient at times, but it is definitely here to stay, and if the Linux crowd doesn't cotton onto that idea their operating system will probably die off on the desktop.

Edit: oh yeah, just to be clear, I use Linux.

Edited 2011-07-30 01:30 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[3]: ...
by anda_skoa on Sat 30th Jul 2011 09:38 in reply to "RE[2]: ..."
anda_skoa Member since:
2005-07-07

Except that in this case, much of the internet won't work at all without it.


Much of the Internet?
It would already be exaggerated to say much of the Web, but much of the Internet is borderline hilarious.

Lets assume for a moment that "normal people" don't use email, never use file sharing (ha!) and don't use any special purpose client software like games or media libraries.

Lets assume that these Internet users solely use a Web browser, what do you really need Flash for?

News portals? No
Travel or hotel booking? No
Online shopping? No
Online banking? Never heard of a bank requiring Flash but maybe there are some that don't want any customers.

I mean one of the main use cases of tablets is web browsing and the leading device (iPads) doesn't have Flash.

So I am sorry but I can't buy "much of the Internet won't work at all without it"

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[4]: ...
by Alfman on Sat 30th Jul 2011 11:03 in reply to "RE[3]: ..."
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

anda_skoa,


"Lets assume that these Internet users solely use a Web browser, what do you really need Flash for?"

To address the question directly: Flash/Java/Silverlight (pick your poison) are needed for highly interactive content. Arguably many users prefer that the websites they visit every day are not highly interactive, but never the less sometimes high interactivity is desired.

As a web developer myself, I run into situations where HTML/Javascript are completely lacking. For one thing, Javascript/DOM performance remains terrible. Secondly, it's severely limited in what it's able to do. The lack of standardized rasterization and svg makes client side charting extremely difficult or impossible without supporting proprietary plugins/extensions. There are many different hacks, but the most reliable and non-proprietary way to do charts/vectors is to render them on the server instead (mapquest/google earth/analytic charts). While this achieves the desired affect in a portable way, I dread these kinds of inefficient workarounds.


"I mean one of the main use cases of tablets is web browsing and the leading device (iPads) doesn't have Flash."


For apple, the battle against evil flash was a diversion (highly successful one I might add). You see apple's intent was to release a tablet where users are tethered to their walled garden. Flash posed a significant threat to their business model; particularly for games and other interactive content. Apple knew users would be happy to download interactive content from the web instead of from the istore, they also knew that developers would be keen to avoid the apple store police and high fees if they could still reach users. So apple banned all emulators and sideloading. They blamed technical problems with flash as the reason users would be banned from highly interactive web apps on their devices. They then promoted HTML5 to fill the gap, fully knowing that HTML5 is not able to deliver the same functionality as the applications in their store.

The conclusion here is just that apple banned flash on the basis of a threat to their business model, not on the basis that it has no utility to users.

Edited 2011-07-30 11:09 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: ...
by SlackerJack on Sat 30th Jul 2011 10:21 in reply to "RE[2]: ..."
SlackerJack Member since:
2005-11-12

Maybe for mainstream Linux but not general Linux distros with have FOSS at their heart. The distro breaks is principles by shipping proprietary software. A simple solution would be to make Flash and such software easy to install, which the likes of Ubuntu and openSUSE do.

Fedora will never do it but they're fine with that and so am I.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: ...
by lucas_maximus on Sat 30th Jul 2011 14:51 in reply to "RE[2]: ..."
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

IMO we need functionality by default, not ideology. Proprietary software may be inconvenient at times, but it is definitely here to stay, and if the Linux crowd doesn't cotton onto that idea their operating system will probably die off on the desktop.

Edit: oh yeah, just to be clear, I use Linux.


If you feel that way, check out Fuduntu,

http://www.fuduntu.org/

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: ...
by viton on Sat 30th Jul 2011 15:18 in reply to "RE[2]: ..."
viton Member since:
2005-08-09

Except that in this case, much of the internet won't work at all without it.

LOL. No one of the sites I visiting daily use flash.
Mainly news and programming-oriented stuff, blogs.
And I browsing'em all in iOS without any issue.
I wonder if any useful sites still use flash? I don't play flash games.

Edited 2011-07-30 15:19 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: ...
by Liquidator on Sat 30th Jul 2011 16:25 in reply to "RE[3]: ..."
Liquidator Member since:
2007-03-04

OSNews is one of the few sites I visit that doesn't use Flash. My news site uses Flash for video excerpts, YouTube does use Flash, Gmail uses a Flash file for real-time I/O, etc...

Reply Parent Score: 3