Linked by David Adams on Wed 3rd Aug 2011 16:10 UTC, submitted by Sin2x
Gnome Linus Torvalds piped up in the comments of a Google+ posting by Linux kernel hacker Dave Jones to air his true feelings about Gnome 3: "it's not that I have rendering problems with gnome3 (although I do have those too), it's that the user experience of Gnome3 even without rendering problems is unacceptable." People care what Linus thinks, and when he ditched KDE for Gnome a couple of years ago, people took note. Now he's using Xfce.
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RE: I've Switched
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 3rd Aug 2011 17:00 UTC in reply to "I've Switched"
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

GNOME 2 all the way here, on my Linux desktop. Unity treats me like a child (those big icons are so incredibly condescending) and is very inflexible, whereas GNOME3 is basically a design study into how the annoy the crap out of me. I'm not kidding - it's like the design document said "Let's annoy the crap out of Thom". I stopped giving a shit about KDE4 right around KDE 4.5 was supposed to fix the horrible Kwin performance but didn't. Again. I tried KDE 4.6 afterwards just to have a go, and there, too, Kwin was a mess. I'm sure Kwin is now fixed in 4.7. Again.

So, GNOME2 on my Linux desktop all the way. If GNOME2 ever starts getting really long in the tooth due to the lack of maintenance, Xfce here I come.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: I've Switched
by nadiasvertex on Wed 3rd Aug 2011 17:05 in reply to "RE: I've Switched"
nadiasvertex Member since:
2006-07-11

I like Unity. The Windows key basically turns into an intelligent command-line opener. The big icons are nice for quickly switching between workspaces.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: I've switched.
by shotsman on Wed 3rd Aug 2011 18:09 in reply to "RE[2]: I've Switched"
shotsman Member since:
2005-07-22

Right.

It is perfect for RIGHT HANDED PEOPLE.

I use the mouse in my LEFT HAND

Whoever designed that load of codswallop needs to be taken out and thrashed with a buggy whip. They must be right handed (or a German)

I'm pretty ambidextrous but using a mouse in my right hand? forget it. It just don't work.

Gnome 2 for me all the way.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: I've Switched
by Delgarde on Wed 3rd Aug 2011 22:57 in reply to "RE[2]: I've Switched"
Delgarde Member since:
2008-08-19

I like Unity. The Windows key basically turns into an intelligent command-line opener. The big icons are nice for quickly switching between workspaces.


Gnome Shell behaves more or less the same way - hit the Windows key, type a few characters of the application (or recent file, etc), and press enter.

And yeah, I'm pretty happy with that part of it. Both Shell and Unity have things I don't like much, but application launching isn't one of them.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: I've Switched
by Gone fishing on Wed 3rd Aug 2011 17:37 in reply to "RE: I've Switched"
Gone fishing Member since:
2006-02-22

If you don't like the big icons why not make them smaller, how difficult is it to slide a slider?

Edited 2011-08-03 17:39 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: I've Switched
by Morgan on Wed 3rd Aug 2011 18:03 in reply to "RE: I've Switched"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

You've nailed basically my entire Linux desktop computing dilemma. Unity can DIAF, and it's the reason I no longer play around with Ubuntu. I tried Gnome 3 but it was a no-go on my hardware; both my P4 desktop with Intel graphics and my Core2Duo laptop with Nvidia Quadro graphics are somehow not powerful enough to run it. Never mind that they both handle Compiz-Fusion like a champ, and modern games are quite playable on the laptop under Windows 7. I did try the gnome-fallback option on the laptop and it ran, but it's horribly simplified from the already simple Gnome2. Just from the screenshots of the regular Gnome3 interface, I can see why it would annoy you, and I think it would do the same to me.

KDE causes lockups and kernel panics on the desktop, and is horribly slow and buggy on the laptop. I do like the look and feel of KDE now, after nearly 10 years of hating it, but it's not stable enough for daily use.

Since Arch is my distro of choice these days, and it doesn't allow me to stay with Gnome2 (though oddly enough there is an unsupported method to stay with KDE 3.x) I have elected to stick with my old standby, Xfce. I started using it when Slackware was my distro and Pat dropped Gnome. It's very much a "Gnome lite" but it can be brought up to nearly the same level of DE functionality with some tweaking and extra packages. On both my computers it's fast, but especially on the laptop.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: I've Switched
by Spiron on Wed 3rd Aug 2011 19:52 in reply to "RE[2]: I've Switched"
Spiron Member since:
2011-03-08

It may not be that your hardware doesn't support it, just that you don't have the right drivers. I own an Acer laptop that has a Nvidia 330m chip in it and if i want to install ANY 3d-compositing environment, (gnome3, unity or otherwise) i have to download the correct drivers from Nvidia's website. I use Arch as my main system and this works fairly well.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: I've Switched
by narcissus on Thu 4th Aug 2011 01:43 in reply to "RE[2]: I've Switched"
narcissus Member since:
2005-07-06

Just curious, but what apps are you running when you get kernel panics and lock-ups in KDE4?

I use KDE4.4.4 each and everyday and only shut it down when I need to move my laptop on the weekends.

I haven't had a single lock-up and i don't think I've ever even seen a kernel panic in the 11 years I've been using linux. Oh wait, yes, I saw one once when I tried to compile my own kernel.

I'm not saying KDE is the best, but it is what I prefer. This is a major reason I use linux, because I can choose what I like to use.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: I've Switched
by lemur2 on Thu 4th Aug 2011 01:53 in reply to "RE[2]: I've Switched"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

KDE causes lockups and kernel panics on the desktop, and is horribly slow and buggy on the laptop. I do like the look and feel of KDE now, after nearly 10 years of hating it, but it's not stable enough for daily use. Since Arch is my distro of choice these days


KDE doesn't cause any such thing as "lockups and kernel panics" under Arch. Running Arch and KDE4 is perfectly stable.

I run Arch and KDE4 with the open source ATI/AMD Gallium3D graphics drivers from Xorg. Stable as a rock, and excellent performance.

http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=mesa_711&num=1

Unlike the adapted-from-Windows "binary blob" drivers from graphics card OEMs, the open source Xorg drivers are actually designed for Linux.

If you run Arch and KDE4 with different graphics drivers, and you really do experience "lockups and kernel panics", then surely the graphics drivers are far and away the most likely cause of your issues.

Edited 2011-08-04 02:11 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: I've Switched
by lucas_maximus on Thu 4th Aug 2011 05:53 in reply to "RE[2]: I've Switched"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

It is shame but Windows 7 would work perfectly fine on either machine ... Accepted the p4 would drop down to Aero Basic Graphics ... but it will still work fine.

EDIT: Reread you comment and missed the Windows 7 bit ... Sorry.

Edited 2011-08-04 05:55 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: I've Switched
by Praxis on Wed 3rd Aug 2011 18:05 in reply to "RE: I've Switched"
Praxis Member since:
2009-09-17

Its anecdotal I know, but with desktop effects turned off kde 4.7 runs just fine on my whimpy little atom netbook. So its certainly possible to run on slower hardware as long as you don't go overboard on the desktop effects. I think the problem is more, certain hardware is buggy as hell with kwin, rather than kwin just being a hog in general.

Gnome 3 of course won't run at all.

If kde ever gets too much for me I shall probably drop down to xfce like everyone else seems to be doing. Though I might take to detour through Awesome first to see if I could get used to a tiling WM.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: I've Switched
by nej_simon on Wed 3rd Aug 2011 19:44 in reply to "RE[2]: I've Switched"
nej_simon Member since:
2011-02-11

Its anecdotal I know, but with desktop effects turned off kde 4.7 runs just fine on my whimpy little atom netbook. So its certainly possible to run on slower hardware as long as you don't go overboard on the desktop effects. I think the problem is more, certain hardware is buggy as hell with kwin, rather than kwin just being a hog in general.

Gnome 3 of course won't run at all.


Why not? Most atom netbooks have Intel GMA graphics, which is perfectly capable of running gnome 3. Do you have something else?

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: I've Switched
by lucas_maximus on Wed 3rd Aug 2011 18:13 in reply to "RE: I've Switched"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Might want to look at using Fuduntu ... they are staying with Gnome 2 til fedora 14 EOL ... Not sure after that .. you probably want to hit the forums.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: I've Switched
by marcus0263 on Thu 4th Aug 2011 02:51 in reply to "RE: I've Switched"
marcus0263 Member since:
2007-06-02

Yeah I left Gnome just recently, I simply loath Unity and Gnome 3 ... let's just say with both of these I'd rather not use a tablet/phone/kiosk interface on my Desktop/Lappy.

I've been using KDE 4.6.x, not bad. I find it a bit buggier than Classic Gnome but the bugs are being worked out.

Unity and Gnome 3 is useless for my needs.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: I've Switched
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Thu 4th Aug 2011 05:30 in reply to "RE: I've Switched"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Funny. I just started seriously trying Gnome3 yesterday. I actually looked at parts of it and said to myself: Thom has to hate this with a passion.

It works great, but there are several usability tradeoffs I can see at play. You can sort of see the arrogance of the designers dripping across the screen. ( this is so great, you don't NEED a minimize! Giant space at the top of the window? It HAS to be that way in order to make it easier to select the menu without triggering the application switcher thingy). If you just focus on Getting stuff done, its not terrible. If you actually pay attention to the use of screen real estate or find use cases for minimize, its kinda cringe worthy.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: I've Switched
by Damnshock on Thu 4th Aug 2011 06:43 in reply to "RE: I've Switched"
Damnshock Member since:
2006-09-15

You do realize you do not need to use kwin in KDE, right?

Besides, it runs perfectly fine in my Intel GMA 950...

I doubt your system is less powerfull than mine...

Regards

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: I've Switched
by lemur2 on Thu 4th Aug 2011 06:51 in reply to "RE[2]: I've Switched"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

You do realize you do not need to use kwin in KDE, right? Besides, it runs perfectly fine in my Intel GMA 950... I doubt your system is less powerfull than mine... Regards


kwin in KDE SC 4.7 has improved performance and reduced demands of GPUs via its ability to run OpenGL ES, to the extent that now it can run even on mobiles and handhelds.

http://kde.org/announcements/4.7/plasma.php

"The Plasma Workspaces window manager, KWin, has received extensive cleanup of its code and can now run on OpenGL ES supporting hardware, making it better suited for mobile devices, and also improvements for desktop users. KWin has a new shadow system, improving support for users of older hardware or hardware for which driver support for OpenGL is limited (Xrender backend). KWin's performance improves noticably thanks to numerous optimizations in certain painting operations."

If you can get KDE SC 4.7 running on your distribution, it might be worth another look at kwin even for low end graphics hardware machines.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: I've Switched
by dusanyu on Sat 6th Aug 2011 22:36 in reply to "RE: I've Switched"
dusanyu Member since:
2006-01-21

We have a fall back atleast on the KDE 3 front http://www.trinitydesktop.org/ is a fork of KDE to keep KDE 3 alive.

All we can do is hope someone does the same with GNOME 2

Reply Parent Score: 1