Linked by David Adams on Sun 14th Aug 2011 22:41 UTC, submitted by subterrific
General Development The final ISO ballot on C++0x closed on Wednesday, and we just received the results: Unanimous approval. The next revision of C++ that we've been calling "C++0x" is now an International Standard! Geneva will take several months to publish it, but we hope it will be published well within the year, and then we'll be able to call it "C++11."
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RE[3]: Comment by kaiwai
by moondevil on Mon 15th Aug 2011 05:35 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by kaiwai"
moondevil
Member since:
2005-07-08

I wonder why people haven't looked more into C and Objective C.


Because C does not offer all high level abstractions and better type safety that C++ does.

And Objective-C is an Apple proprietary language that is only used to write MacOS X and iOS applications.

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[4]: Comment by kaiwai
by Hypnos on Mon 15th Aug 2011 06:35 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by kaiwai"
Hypnos Member since:
2008-11-19

FYI, there are two open source Obj-C compilers (gcc and LLVM/Clang) and open source software can linked against either the OSX library stack or GNUstep.

So, by your standard, one could call C++ proprietary, since most software C++ software is written for a proprietary platform.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Comment by kaiwai
by moondevil on Mon 15th Aug 2011 07:57 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by kaiwai"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

FYI, there are two open source Obj-C compilers (gcc and LLVM/Clang) and open source software can linked against either the OSX library stack or GNUstep.

So, by your standard, one could call C++ proprietary, since most software C++ software is written for a proprietary platform.


C++ is not proprietary. How the language looks like and what libraries are available by default is defined by ANSI and ISO standards.

While Objective-C is defined by Apple's documentation. The compilers you mention only offer partial Objective-C 2.0 support for example.

Plus none of them offer base libraries for the language. Outside Apple systems you are left with GNUStep, which still tries to mimic the NeXTStep environment.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: Comment by kaiwai
by ebasconp on Mon 15th Aug 2011 11:39 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by kaiwai"
ebasconp Member since:
2006-05-09

Anyway, in Objective-C you do not have the power and versatility that high-level abstractions (templates) that C++ offers.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by kaiwai
by burnttoys on Mon 15th Aug 2011 11:54 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by kaiwai"
burnttoys Member since:
2008-12-20

Man this thread is disintegrating badly.

Objective-C is _NOT_ proprietary. You are _not_ restricted in your use of it in ANY way whatsoever. It also pre-dates Apple going back the NeXT days (but of course Apple bought that lock, stock and barrel).

Proprietary would mean that the owners restricted, via license, your use of Objective-C is some way. This is not the case - you can implement your own compiler if you so choose to and even extend the language.

Also - I've seen Objective-C used WAY outside of Apple kit.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Comment by kaiwai
by tanishaj on Mon 15th Aug 2011 23:39 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by kaiwai"
tanishaj Member since:
2010-12-22

And Objective-C is an Apple proprietary language that is only used to write MacOS X and iOS applications.


In addition to being inflammatory, this is misleading.

Objective-C is an adaptation of Smalltalk for people that like the Algol language family syntax (C like syntax).

Objective-C was not invented by Apple (and is not proprietary to them). It has been around longer than the Macintosh (the early 80's). Their has been a GNU version of Objective-C since 1993.

Objective-C can be compiled with GCC either Clang (the LLVM C/C++/Objective-C compiler). This means that you can code in Objective-C on Mac, Windows, or Linux. No proprietary tools are required (all Open Source).

Clang is about to become the primary compiler used by FreeBSD and other BSD flavours as well.

All that said, I agree that Objective-C is only really popular on Apple platforms (OS X and iOS). Objective-C was the language choice on NeXT machines. It became the main language on Mac when Apple bought NeXT in 1996.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Comment by kaiwai
by moondevil on Tue 16th Aug 2011 06:15 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by kaiwai"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

"And Objective-C is an Apple proprietary language that is only used to write MacOS X and iOS applications.


In addition to being inflammatory, this is misleading.

Objective-C is an adaptation of Smalltalk for people that like the Algol language family syntax (C like syntax).

Objective-C was not invented by Apple (and is not proprietary to them). It has been around longer than the Macintosh (the early 80's). Their has been a GNU version of Objective-C since 1993.
"

You're right, actually it was developed at NeXT, which only made the source code available to the FSF, because
they modified GCC source code. Originally there were no plans to make it open. FSF had to send their lawyer.

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/pragmatic.html

Apple acquired the rights to the language when they bought NeXT.



Objective-C can be compiled with GCC either Clang (the LLVM C/C++/Objective-C compiler). This means that you can code in Objective-C on Mac, Windows, or Linux. No proprietary tools are required (all Open Source).


Except you forget that a language also requires a runtime and libraries.

GCC only provides support for Objective-C 2.0 since version 4.6.0, but still has two runtimes. No support
for changes made in Lion and Apple is no longer contributing to GCC since they have Clang.

And as you can see from this thread, still today it is not easy to convice them to give the changes back.

http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2009-07/msg00403.html


Clang is about to become the primary compiler used by FreeBSD and other BSD flavours as well.

All that said, I agree that Objective-C is only really popular on Apple platforms (OS X and iOS). Objective-C was the language choice on NeXT machines. It became the main language on Mac when Apple bought NeXT in 1996.


Still a language without libraries won't fly. And there are no libraries outside Apple platforms. GNUStep does not count, because it is tracking a mix of NeXTStep and Cocoa, plus it still makes use of a NeXStep based build framework which does not go well in other OS.

And work for Objective-C 2.0 in GNUStep is still ongoing.

http://wiki.gnustep.org/index.php/ObjC2_FAQ

Reply Parent Score: 4