Linked by snydeq on Tue 16th Aug 2011 16:46 UTC
Web 2.0 InfoWorld's Peter Wayner discusses the 11 hard truths Web developers must accept in making the most of HTML5 -- especially those who are looking to leverage HTML5 in hopes of unseating native apps. 'The truth is, despite its powerful capabilities, HTML5 isn't the solution for every problem. Its additional features are compelling and will help make Web apps formidable competitors for native apps, but security issues, limitations of local data storage, synchonization challenges, and politics should have us all scaling back our expectations for the spec.'
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deathshadow
Member since:
2005-07-12

I did learn the basics. I spent hours fighting with it trying to make it work (and mostly failing because it was far from intuitive). The only thing that learning the basics did was increase my desire to replace the entire "web" stack, from HTTP all the way up.

You probably were either learning from the wrong sources (VERY likely, lots of web rot out there) or failed to grasp how important semantic non-presentational markup is to using CSS properly. There's a saying I use a lot -- CSS is only as good as the HTML it's applied to. If you're still vomiting up HTML 3 style presentational markup (a disastrous mess that should never have been allowed in the first place) applying CSS is just going to result in a bloated mess. You start throwing classes and ID's on EVERYTHING instead of using one convenient parent tag and it's going to be a disaster as well...

Really though, saying the APPEARANCE on every element in the markup defeats the point of HTML -- saying what things are so the USER AGENT can best determine how to show it. As another saying goes "If you choose your HTML based on the default appearance of the tags, you're using HTML wrong!" -- and that dates back to HTML 2. We got away from that with HTML 3 during the browser wars, and HTML 4 Strict was supposed to drag us back on track. (and now HTML 5 is just 3 in drag, worse than 4 Tranny as it least it was on hormone therapy getting ready to go under the knife)

But then, the markup alone is where a LOT of people screw up their pages -- concentrating on the appearance before they even have semantic markup of the content (or a reasonable facsmile) with a logical document structure... That's the approach I've been advocating for design over the past half decade or so... Semantic markup of content FIRST -- that way you know it's accessibile to EVERYTHING with tags saying what things ARE. THEN bend that markup to your will creating the layout in CSS for each of your primary media targets -- Screen, Handheld, Print (and now screen+width for smartphones/tablets).... then and only then boot up the goof-assed paint program like Photoshop to create the graphics you'll hang on the layout. (and with CSS3 even that looks to get a swift boot in the patoot).

It's why I laugh at the people who end up with the "but I can do it in photoshop" idiocy where they had some artist draw a pretty picture, that's COMPLETELY non-viable as a website due to fixed height elements, fixed width elements, non-tileable or stretchable elements, and areas that can't even dynamically adjust to the content inside them.

Reply Parent Score: 2

Brendan Member since:
2005-11-16

Hi,

You probably were either learning from the wrong sources (VERY likely, lots of web rot out there) or failed to grasp how important semantic non-presentational markup is to using CSS properly. There's a saying I use a lot -- CSS is only as good as the HTML it's applied to. If you're still vomiting up HTML 3 style presentational markup (a disastrous mess that should never have been allowed in the first place) applying CSS is just going to result in a bloated mess. You start throwing classes and ID's on EVERYTHING instead of using one convenient parent tag and it's going to be a disaster as well...


It's hard to remember the exact details now. What I do remember is that I was trying to use CSS to control page layout, and couldn't get the layout I wanted - I kept getting strange/unexpected results, like pieces of the layout in unwanted places and pieces superimposed on other pieces. In the end, I had to reorder the HTML and change the layout to suit CSS, rather than being able to get what I wanted.

The layout I wanted wasn't complicated either (page header, page footer, navigation menu/links at the top right, with main area in the middle). I still don't know if it's possible to have HTML in a logical order (e.g. main content, followed by "header, navigation, footer") where CSS controls layout completely.

Of course I'm not saying that CSS isn't capable of doing what I wanted (I honestly have no idea). I am saying it was far from intuitive, and that if it is possible it certainly isn't easy.

- Brendan

Reply Parent Score: 2