Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 22nd Aug 2011 21:19 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless Last week, HP killed its webOS devices unit. Over the weekend, the company slashed the prices on the TouchPad. The result? The TouchPad sold out completely in a matter of hours. This confirms what I've been hearing from friends and family: "I'd love a tablet, but I'm not paying laptop money for one."
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RE: Interesting experiment
by Soulbender on Mon 22nd Aug 2011 22:44 UTC in reply to "Interesting experiment"
Soulbender
Member since:
2005-08-18

The trouble with that hypothesis is that it seems there are tens of millions of people who don't think the iPad is too expensive.


On a global scale, that's really not that many units sold for a consumer device. Especially not considering that it is supposed to usher in the death of the desktop.
For $500 you can get a decent laptop that does more than an iPad, not to mention desktop systems.
Might explain why Apple haven't sold more units.

It turns out there is no such thing as a 'tablet market'.
Just an iPad market.


Uh, yeah, ok. Maybe you need to step out of the RDF for a while.

In order generate the same sort of enthusiastic sales demand that is common place for the iPad you have to sell competing devices at a fifth of the price of an iPad.
Good luck with that.


Yea, that didnt work out AT ALL for the IBM PC. Apple was such a dominant player in the desktop space. Not learning from the past, are we.

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[2]: Interesting experiment
by kristoph on Mon 22nd Aug 2011 22:59 in reply to "RE: Interesting experiment"
kristoph Member since:
2006-01-01

On a global scale, that's really not that many units sold for a consumer device. Especially not considering that it is supposed to usher in the death of the desktop.

It's actually the fastest selling consumer product in the history of man kind.

For $500 you can get a decent laptop that does more than an iPad, not to mention desktop systems.

You can but the iPad is not really there to compete with a $500 (Windows) laptop. You can do stuff on such a laptop but (for most people) the experience will not be nearly as pleasant as the using an iPad 2.

Might explain why Apple haven't sold more units.

I'll just say again here that the iPad is the fastest selling consumer product in human history.


"It turns out there is no such thing as a 'tablet market'.
Just an iPad market.


Uh, yeah, ok. Maybe you need to step out of the RDF for a while.
"

Actually, at this time, there is a very small non-iPad tablet market, and a very large iPad market. That's the reality today.

It might change and the iPad could become like the iPhone with 20% market share or it could be like the iPod with 65% marker share.

Yea, that didnt work out AT ALL for the IBM PC. Apple was such a dominant player in the desktop space. Not learning from the past, are we.


I don't know about the past but Apple today is worth more then Dell, HP, and Lenovo combined so I don't think they need to learn much from the past.

Reply Parent Score: 1

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

It's actually the fastest selling consumer product in the history of man kind.


I doubt that. Remember - the iPad is actually TWO products. The Nokia 1100 alone sold 200 million units in five years - that's 40 million *per year*, compared to your combined iPad1/2 sales of, like, 25-30 million in 18 months.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: Interesting experiment
by zima on Mon 22nd Aug 2011 23:15 in reply to "RE[2]: Interesting experiment"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

It's actually the fastest selling consumer product in the history of man kind.

We're not talking about Nokia 1100 here.

I'll just say again here that the iPad is the fastest selling consumer product in human history.

My, you are confused.

So, what is it for iPad in a year+, a mere 30 million? Try 250 million over the course of 3-4 years.

the iPad could become like the iPhone with 20% market share or it could be like the iPod with 65% marker share.

iPhone in a subcategory, iPod in few visible markets... plus, the world simply quickly zoomed past the time of dedicated music players. It's clear ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ipod_sales_per_quarter.svg ) the iPod really took off (and still only in few atypical places) at roughly the same time it happened also to mobile phones with music player capability (mobile phones which weren't castrated by carriers in most places)

Yes, their music capability isn't used so universally as in the case of iPods. For my region, it's something like 20-30% of all European mobile phone users also regularly listening music on them. But that already adds up just in that one region to an absolute value in the range of total number of iPods ever produced.

Anyhow, in a reasonably prosperous ex-Comecon late EU memberstate, I can probably count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've seen an iPod (well, excluding mine...). S1 mp3 players, and similar (Creative, et al), seemed to be typical for quite some time; largely replaced by mobile phones few years ago already (typically by so called "feature phones" ...though, later, often in a form of touchsreens, like LG Cookie).
And most places are less prosperous than mine, with even greater mark-up on Apple products.

I don't know about the past but Apple today is worth more then Dell, HP, and Lenovo combined so I don't think they need to learn much from the past.

This one always fascinates me. People are often very quick, particularly at tech forums, to voice their disdain towards bankers, brokers, etc. ...except when worshipping valuations of some darling of theirs made by... the very same despised people.

Edited 2011-08-22 23:17 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06


You can do stuff on such a laptop but (for most people) the experience will not be nearly as pleasant as the using an iPad 2.


Yes.. because the ipad is far more "pleasent" for using keyboard/mouse centric programs or replacing everything one could do with a 500$ laptop right? Be careful how you throw around the claim that no computer use can be a pleasent as on your brand loyalty.

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[3]: Interesting experiment
by tupp on Tue 23rd Aug 2011 17:17 in reply to "RE[2]: Interesting experiment"
tupp Member since:
2006-11-12

It's [the Ipad] actually the fastest selling consumer product in the history of man kind.

This statement is yet another classic example of the unrelenting Apple hyperbole and of the irrationality of most Apple worshipers.

One would have to include a few severely limiting conditions in such a statement, before it could even become close to being true. Then, the brag wouldn't be very impressive.

Do Apple fanboys really believe that more Ipads have been sold in a day/week/month/year than cans of Coca-Cola? ... bottles of Budweiser? ... packs of Malboro cigarettes? ... gallons of Exxon gasoline? The list goes on and on. These are definitely consumer products (and the user actually "consumes" most of them).

It would not be surprising that Apple sales are strong, in light of the fact that there are many who actually believe statements such as the one quoted above. Certainly, Apple sales figures have less to do with the merits of Apple products and more to do with Apple marketing.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Interesting experiment
by Tony Swash on Mon 22nd Aug 2011 23:01 in reply to "RE: Interesting experiment"
Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

Yea, that didnt work out AT ALL for the IBM PC. Apple was such a dominant player in the desktop space. Not learning from the past, are we.


I think Apple learned all the right lessons from the past and not the idiotic ones (licence the OS etc).

Here are a few of the many lessons learned:

a) Build a better value stack for your customers (world's best and biggest app store, world's best retail experience, world's best brand, world's best digital content store, etc).

b) Build a set of products that cater for every market segment, except the piss poor crap end, and which are highly integrated, snap together in ingenious ways, allow easy user skill and content migration.

c) Build the world's best supply chain and use your cash mountain to not only secure the best components but prevent your competitors from getting their hands on any. Note the way that would be Macbook Air competitors cannot get any unibody manufacturing deals because Apple sewed them up. Similarly when the retina display iPad arrives probably next year no one else will be able to buy such displays.

d) Based on the above build products that no one can else can match in price and quality and make any money on. Kill the OEMs one by one.

Apple built a business with the iPad from scratch, with an entirely new product range in a product category that was minute, that if it was a stand alone business would have been in the fortune 500 in just 18 months. Trying to dismiss the scale of Apple's achievement or the size of the impact it is having on the PC and tech world is just silly. The iPad is kicking away the last legs that the sclerotic PC makers were leaning on. HP' departure won't be the last.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Interesting experiment
by karunko on Tue 23rd Aug 2011 14:02 in reply to "RE[2]: Interesting experiment"
karunko Member since:
2008-10-28

a) Build a better value stack for your customers (world's best and biggest app store, world's best retail experience, world's best brand, world's best digital content store, etc).

Please, define "world's best". According to whom or what?

b) Build a set of products that cater for every market segment, except the piss poor crap end

Okay, where is my headless desktop then? And no, the Mac Pro doesn't really qualify.

c) Build the world's best supply chain and use your cash mountain to not only secure the best components but prevent your competitors from getting their hands on any.

And this is good for me as a consumer because...? Maybe you sit in the board of directors and I don't, but I thought competition was (supposedly) a good thing, but it seems that no company really wants any -- Apple in particular.

d) Based on the above build products that no one can else can match in price and quality

Yeah, keep on dreaming. Or check the prices. Whichever is going to cause you less stress. As far as I am concerned, my only reason to be interested in Apple is OS X. Or rather, was. Lion is firmly in the "what where they thinking" category and, if this is any indication of the things to come, I'm ready to move on.

Trying to dismiss the scale of Apple's achievement or the size of the impact it is having on the PC and tech world is just silly.

And what about believing AND repeating baseless claims then?

The iPad is kicking away the last legs that the sclerotic PC makers were leaning on. HP' departure won't be the last.

Steve, is that you?


RT.

PS: Could we have "fanboy (-1000)" option and just save time in the future? ;-)

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Interesting experiment
by karunko on Tue 23rd Aug 2011 15:06 in reply to "RE[2]: Interesting experiment"
karunko Member since:
2008-10-28

The iPad is kicking away the last legs that the sclerotic PC makers were leaning on. HP' departure won't be the last.


Sorry, but Lenovo begs to differ.

This wasn't hard to find but, for instance, from: http://www.techcentral.ie/article.aspx?id=17271

"Lenovo profits nearly double
Becomes third largest PC maker"

The Chinese company reported that both desktop PC and laptop shipments for the quarter increased by 23% from the same period last year.

Dying, indeed.

Or should we count the iPads as PCs just to make Steve & Co. happy?



RT.

Reply Parent Score: 2

BallmerKnowsBest Member since:
2008-06-02

Here are a few of the many lessons learned:

a) Build a better value stack for your customers (world's best and biggest app store, world's best retail experience, world's best brand, world's best digital content store, etc).

b) Build a set of products that cater for every market segment, except the piss poor crap end, and which are highly integrated, snap together in ingenious ways, allow easy user skill and content migration.

c) Build the world's best supply chain and use your cash mountain to not only secure the best components but prevent your competitors from getting their hands on any. Note the way that would be Macbook Air competitors cannot get any unibody manufacturing deals because Apple sewed them up. Similarly when the retina display iPad arrives probably next year no one else will be able to buy such displays.

d) Based on the above build products that no one can else can match in price and quality and make any money on. Kill the OEMs one by one.


You forgot one:

Fill all of your marketing materials with words like "best", "biggest", "most", etc. This sort of juvenile triumphalism will appeal to people who have a compulsive need to brag about something & who will endlessly repeat those talking points to anyone who will listen (as you've done here). That sort of thing appeals to people with no actual accomplishments of their own, so they latch onto Apple. It's just the adult version of "my dad can beat up your dad," but with Apple as daddy.

These are the folks who choose computing devices solely based on which one will give them the best bragging-rights-by-proxy. Which is why Apple fanboys stick out like sore thumbs on tech forums: when you have a community of actual technology enthusiasts, it just makes the wannabes and hangers-on more obvious.

Trying to dismiss the scale of Apple's achievement or the size of the impact it is having on the PC and tech world is just silly. The iPad is kicking away the last legs that the sclerotic PC makers were leaning on. HP' departure won't be the last.


Hahaha, jump the gun much? Outside of the "tablets are killing the desktop" hype-bubble, the total sales of BOTH models of the iPad have barely managed to overtake the first XBox (only 125 million to go before they catch up with the PS2). Decent numbers for a game console or consumer electronics toy, but utterly pathetic for something that's supposedly going to "kill the desktop" and be the "computing platform of the future."

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Interesting experiment
by tupp on Tue 23rd Aug 2011 22:49 in reply to "RE[2]: Interesting experiment"
tupp Member since:
2006-11-12

Note the way that would be Macbook Air competitors cannot get any unibody manufacturing deals because Apple sewed them up.

What?

Why do Apple fanboys often feel the need to dream-up non-existent scenarios for their arguments. I guess that deep down they must realize that their beloved corporation is not anywhere near as great as they pretend.

First of all, there actually are quite a few "unibody" laptops out there, they are just made of polycarbonate plastic.

Secondly, anyone can contract any "run-of-the-mill" CNC shop to machine unibody enclosures. Apple doesn't have all of the zillions of CNC machines in the world "sewn-up" -- that's quite a crazy notion.

Nonetheless, several reasons make metal "unibody" laptops an unattractive proposition. First of all, if the pieces are machined as in Apple's method, the process is expensive, time consuming, wasteful and environmentally unsound. Secondly, if one drops one of these metal items and a panel is bent, one faces a very expensive repair.

There have been lots of reports of bent/dented unibody Macs. Presumably, this drawback is the reason why Apple subsequently offered a more resilient polycarbonate "unibody" laptop.

In addition, "unibody" construction doesn't really have any practical advantages -- it isn't any stronger (it's weaker and less resilient in Apple products), and it doesn't add any protection to the internal components. If you want strength and protection in your laptop, get one of the several "ruggedized" brands, such as Panasonic ToughBooks.

So, the basic reason that most manufacturers don't machine "unibody" laptop enclosures is because it is basically a stupid, expensive and problematic idea, that puts form over function.

By the way, Apple was definitely not the first to offer a production model of a laptop with metal, "unibody" construction. Here is a Sony laptop from 1997 with a shell made up of four magnesium panels (doesn't dent as easily as the aluminum Macs): http://www.sony.net/Fun/design/history/product/1990/pcg-505.html

Reply Parent Score: 3

Windows Sucks Member since:
2005-11-10

Interesting. All these years later that Apple is the fastest growing computer company in the world and making the most money. This is not a battle, it's a war. MS won the PC battle for 20 years. Blew up just like Android. Now Windows is losing steam, and Apple still has plenty of room to grow.

But while all that was happening Apple came out with the iPod which just like the iPad was over priced device that no one needed but just like a Benz or BMW it's a status symbol that people will pay a premium for just because it's Apple. No one else is gonna match that.

There will be iPads and then everything else like in the music player market.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Interesting experiment
by vitae on Mon 22nd Aug 2011 23:37 in reply to "RE[2]: Interesting experiment"
vitae Member since:
2006-02-20

You really do have to credit Apple's marketing machine for this. They have done an amazing job convincing the world that their products are the best because they're the most aesthetic and that people should pay the higher prices for them. All criticism of their litigation obsession aside, they are true masters at selling a product.

Reply Parent Score: 1