Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 22nd Aug 2011 21:19 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless Last week, HP killed its webOS devices unit. Over the weekend, the company slashed the prices on the TouchPad. The result? The TouchPad sold out completely in a matter of hours. This confirms what I've been hearing from friends and family: "I'd love a tablet, but I'm not paying laptop money for one."
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RE[2]: Interesting experiment
by Tony Swash on Mon 22nd Aug 2011 23:01 UTC in reply to "RE: Interesting experiment"
Tony Swash
Member since:
2009-08-22

Yea, that didnt work out AT ALL for the IBM PC. Apple was such a dominant player in the desktop space. Not learning from the past, are we.


I think Apple learned all the right lessons from the past and not the idiotic ones (licence the OS etc).

Here are a few of the many lessons learned:

a) Build a better value stack for your customers (world's best and biggest app store, world's best retail experience, world's best brand, world's best digital content store, etc).

b) Build a set of products that cater for every market segment, except the piss poor crap end, and which are highly integrated, snap together in ingenious ways, allow easy user skill and content migration.

c) Build the world's best supply chain and use your cash mountain to not only secure the best components but prevent your competitors from getting their hands on any. Note the way that would be Macbook Air competitors cannot get any unibody manufacturing deals because Apple sewed them up. Similarly when the retina display iPad arrives probably next year no one else will be able to buy such displays.

d) Based on the above build products that no one can else can match in price and quality and make any money on. Kill the OEMs one by one.

Apple built a business with the iPad from scratch, with an entirely new product range in a product category that was minute, that if it was a stand alone business would have been in the fortune 500 in just 18 months. Trying to dismiss the scale of Apple's achievement or the size of the impact it is having on the PC and tech world is just silly. The iPad is kicking away the last legs that the sclerotic PC makers were leaning on. HP' departure won't be the last.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Interesting experiment
by karunko on Tue 23rd Aug 2011 14:02 in reply to "RE[2]: Interesting experiment"
karunko Member since:
2008-10-28

a) Build a better value stack for your customers (world's best and biggest app store, world's best retail experience, world's best brand, world's best digital content store, etc).

Please, define "world's best". According to whom or what?

b) Build a set of products that cater for every market segment, except the piss poor crap end

Okay, where is my headless desktop then? And no, the Mac Pro doesn't really qualify.

c) Build the world's best supply chain and use your cash mountain to not only secure the best components but prevent your competitors from getting their hands on any.

And this is good for me as a consumer because...? Maybe you sit in the board of directors and I don't, but I thought competition was (supposedly) a good thing, but it seems that no company really wants any -- Apple in particular.

d) Based on the above build products that no one can else can match in price and quality

Yeah, keep on dreaming. Or check the prices. Whichever is going to cause you less stress. As far as I am concerned, my only reason to be interested in Apple is OS X. Or rather, was. Lion is firmly in the "what where they thinking" category and, if this is any indication of the things to come, I'm ready to move on.

Trying to dismiss the scale of Apple's achievement or the size of the impact it is having on the PC and tech world is just silly.

And what about believing AND repeating baseless claims then?

The iPad is kicking away the last legs that the sclerotic PC makers were leaning on. HP' departure won't be the last.

Steve, is that you?


RT.

PS: Could we have "fanboy (-1000)" option and just save time in the future? ;-)

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Interesting experiment
by ccraig13 on Tue 23rd Aug 2011 16:09 in reply to "RE[3]: Interesting experiment"
ccraig13 Member since:
2011-05-31

Okay, where is my headless desktop then? And no, the Mac Pro doesn't really qualify.

Ever hear of a mac mini?

PS: Could we have "fanboy (-1000)" option and just save time in the future? ;-)

How bout a "I don't know how to google (-1000)" option?

Reply Parent Score: 1

Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

Please, define "world's best". According to whom or what?.



Well the Apple app store has the most apps and sells the most apps and makes developers a lot more money than any other app store. Thus best. Apple retail stores are hugely popular, have astonishing best of class visitors and sales per square foot and are growing much fast than an other retail chain. Thus best. Apple's brand always tops or comes near the top of customer appreciation and satisfaction surveys, brand appreciation surveys, reliability surgery etc. Thus best. Apple has the digital contents store with the biggest range of content and larger turnover and sales. Thus best. It's not rocket science.

Okay, where is my headless desktop then? And no, the Mac Pro doesn't really qualify.


Mac Mini - duh!

And this is good for me as a consumer because...? Maybe you sit in the board of directors and I don't, but I thought competition was (supposedly) a good thing, but it seems that no company really wants any -- Apple in particular.


That depends whether you like Apple products or not. My comment was about understanding why Apple succeeds, which includes factors such as this.


Yeah, keep on dreaming. Or check the prices. Whichever is going to cause you less stress. As far as I am concerned, my only reason to be interested in Apple is OS X. Or rather, was. Lion is firmly in the "what where they thinking" category and, if this is any indication of the things to come, I'm ready to move on.


Competitors have struggled to match the iPad in build quality and price and when they come close they make far less money than Apple. Its a similar story with the Macbook Air, competitors cannot match the unibody build quality and price and have been begging Intel unsuccessfully for special discounts


Steve, is that you?


You may not like the way the tech world is evolving but trying to pretend it isn't changing or that Apple isn't doing remarkably well especially in the new growth sectors is just silly. You don't have to be a fan boy to see what is happening or to be interested in the reasons why.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Interesting experiment
by karunko on Tue 23rd Aug 2011 15:06 in reply to "RE[2]: Interesting experiment"
karunko Member since:
2008-10-28

The iPad is kicking away the last legs that the sclerotic PC makers were leaning on. HP' departure won't be the last.


Sorry, but Lenovo begs to differ.

This wasn't hard to find but, for instance, from: http://www.techcentral.ie/article.aspx?id=17271

"Lenovo profits nearly double
Becomes third largest PC maker"

The Chinese company reported that both desktop PC and laptop shipments for the quarter increased by 23% from the same period last year.

Dying, indeed.

Or should we count the iPads as PCs just to make Steve & Co. happy?



RT.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Interesting experiment
by ccraig13 on Tue 23rd Aug 2011 16:41 in reply to "RE[3]: Interesting experiment"
ccraig13 Member since:
2011-05-31

Lenovo makes a quality product. My old ThinkPad (IBM version) was extremely well built. They also get very high marks from Consumer Reports. They're my first choice when looking at non-Apple hardware, so I'm glad they're doing well. Never had good experience with HP/Compaq ( Always seemed to be fixing somone's... )

Reply Parent Score: 1

Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

"The iPad is kicking away the last legs that the sclerotic PC makers were leaning on. HP' departure won't be the last.


Sorry, but Lenovo begs to differ.

This wasn't hard to find but, for instance, from: http://www.techcentral.ie/article.aspx?id=17271

"Lenovo profits nearly double
Becomes third largest PC maker"

The Chinese company reported that both desktop PC and laptop shipments for the quarter increased by 23% from the same period last year.

Dying, indeed.

Or should we count the iPads as PCs just to make Steve & Co. happy?

RT.
"

Apple just beat Lenovo in China

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-08-19/hardware/299...

Its the shape of things to come.

Apple's sales in China went up six fold in the last year.

Apple doesn't chase PC sales by just market share or units, and thus is not interested in the pretty dreadful world of razor thin margins and shabby beige boxes.

Of course iPads are are computers just a new sort of computer. I know their are a lot of folks who love yesterday's technologies and their certainties but times change.

Reply Parent Score: 2

BallmerKnowsBest Member since:
2008-06-02

Here are a few of the many lessons learned:

a) Build a better value stack for your customers (world's best and biggest app store, world's best retail experience, world's best brand, world's best digital content store, etc).

b) Build a set of products that cater for every market segment, except the piss poor crap end, and which are highly integrated, snap together in ingenious ways, allow easy user skill and content migration.

c) Build the world's best supply chain and use your cash mountain to not only secure the best components but prevent your competitors from getting their hands on any. Note the way that would be Macbook Air competitors cannot get any unibody manufacturing deals because Apple sewed them up. Similarly when the retina display iPad arrives probably next year no one else will be able to buy such displays.

d) Based on the above build products that no one can else can match in price and quality and make any money on. Kill the OEMs one by one.


You forgot one:

Fill all of your marketing materials with words like "best", "biggest", "most", etc. This sort of juvenile triumphalism will appeal to people who have a compulsive need to brag about something & who will endlessly repeat those talking points to anyone who will listen (as you've done here). That sort of thing appeals to people with no actual accomplishments of their own, so they latch onto Apple. It's just the adult version of "my dad can beat up your dad," but with Apple as daddy.

These are the folks who choose computing devices solely based on which one will give them the best bragging-rights-by-proxy. Which is why Apple fanboys stick out like sore thumbs on tech forums: when you have a community of actual technology enthusiasts, it just makes the wannabes and hangers-on more obvious.

Trying to dismiss the scale of Apple's achievement or the size of the impact it is having on the PC and tech world is just silly. The iPad is kicking away the last legs that the sclerotic PC makers were leaning on. HP' departure won't be the last.


Hahaha, jump the gun much? Outside of the "tablets are killing the desktop" hype-bubble, the total sales of BOTH models of the iPad have barely managed to overtake the first XBox (only 125 million to go before they catch up with the PS2). Decent numbers for a game console or consumer electronics toy, but utterly pathetic for something that's supposedly going to "kill the desktop" and be the "computing platform of the future."

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Interesting experiment
by tupp on Tue 23rd Aug 2011 22:49 in reply to "RE[2]: Interesting experiment"
tupp Member since:
2006-11-12

Note the way that would be Macbook Air competitors cannot get any unibody manufacturing deals because Apple sewed them up.

What?

Why do Apple fanboys often feel the need to dream-up non-existent scenarios for their arguments. I guess that deep down they must realize that their beloved corporation is not anywhere near as great as they pretend.

First of all, there actually are quite a few "unibody" laptops out there, they are just made of polycarbonate plastic.

Secondly, anyone can contract any "run-of-the-mill" CNC shop to machine unibody enclosures. Apple doesn't have all of the zillions of CNC machines in the world "sewn-up" -- that's quite a crazy notion.

Nonetheless, several reasons make metal "unibody" laptops an unattractive proposition. First of all, if the pieces are machined as in Apple's method, the process is expensive, time consuming, wasteful and environmentally unsound. Secondly, if one drops one of these metal items and a panel is bent, one faces a very expensive repair.

There have been lots of reports of bent/dented unibody Macs. Presumably, this drawback is the reason why Apple subsequently offered a more resilient polycarbonate "unibody" laptop.

In addition, "unibody" construction doesn't really have any practical advantages -- it isn't any stronger (it's weaker and less resilient in Apple products), and it doesn't add any protection to the internal components. If you want strength and protection in your laptop, get one of the several "ruggedized" brands, such as Panasonic ToughBooks.

So, the basic reason that most manufacturers don't machine "unibody" laptop enclosures is because it is basically a stupid, expensive and problematic idea, that puts form over function.

By the way, Apple was definitely not the first to offer a production model of a laptop with metal, "unibody" construction. Here is a Sony laptop from 1997 with a shell made up of four magnesium panels (doesn't dent as easily as the aluminum Macs): http://www.sony.net/Fun/design/history/product/1990/pcg-505.html

Reply Parent Score: 3

Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

"Note the way that would be Macbook Air competitors cannot get any unibody manufacturing deals because Apple sewed them up.

What?

Why do Apple fanboys often feel the need to dream-up non-existent scenarios for their arguments. I guess that deep down they must realize that their beloved corporation is not anywhere near as great as they pretend.

First of all, there actually are quite a few "unibody" laptops out there, they are just made of polycarbonate plastic.

Secondly, anyone can contract any "run-of-the-mill" CNC shop to machine unibody enclosures. Apple doesn't have all of the zillions of CNC machines in the world "sewn-up" -- that's quite a crazy notion.

Nonetheless, several reasons make metal "unibody" laptops an unattractive proposition. First of all, if the pieces are machined as in Apple's method, the process is expensive, time consuming, wasteful and environmentally unsound. Secondly, if one drops one of these metal items and a panel is bent, one faces a very expensive repair.

There have been lots of reports of bent/dented unibody Macs. Presumably, this drawback is the reason why Apple subsequently offered a more resilient polycarbonate "unibody" laptop.

In addition, "unibody" construction doesn't really have any practical advantages -- it isn't any stronger (it's weaker and less resilient in Apple products), and it doesn't add any protection to the internal components. If you want strength and protection in your laptop, get one of the several "ruggedized" brands, such as Panasonic ToughBooks.

So, the basic reason that most manufacturers don't machine "unibody" laptop enclosures is because it is basically a stupid, expensive and problematic idea, that puts form over function.

By the way, Apple was definitely not the first to offer a production model of a laptop with metal, "unibody" construction. Here is a Sony laptop from 1997 with a shell made up of four magnesium panels (doesn't dent as easily as the aluminum Macs): http://www.sony.net/Fun/design/history/product/1990/pcg-505.html
"

http://www.pcworld.com/article/237812/apple_forces_competition_to_a...

Sure unibody laptop enclosures are stupid. Sure. PC makers could make them if they wanted. Sure. Keep saying that. Still doesn't change anything.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/237992/windows_laptop_makers_cant_ca...

PC OEMs are finding it hard to impossible to match the Macbook Air which is flying off the shelves. Apple is the only PC maker that is still showing substantial growth and makes most of the profits in the industry. There are reasons for that.

Reply Parent Score: 1