Linked by AdamW on Tue 23rd Aug 2011 22:10 UTC
Fedora Core Fedora 16 Alpha is released today, featuring GNOME 3.1.4 with a unified input indicator for keyboard layouts and input methods, KDE 4.7, GRUB 2 on new installations (with GPT disk labels) and several other major changes. You can download it now. Remember to read the important information in the release notes and common bugs page.
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Ugly Font Rendering
by smoerk on Tue 23rd Aug 2011 22:46 UTC
smoerk
Member since:
2009-07-10

I tried Fedora 16 today, because I was really dissapointed of Ubuntu with it's crappy Unity experiment, unresponsive desktop, audio and wireless problems. With Fedora as a desktop it doesn't matter if it's Gnome 1, 2, 3 or Unity. The font rendering is so amazingly f--ked up it's unusable anyway. Is anyone using this crap as desktop OS, really? Gives me eye and brain cancer. Tomorrow I'll try Ubuntu 11.10 with Gnome Shell.

Edited 2011-08-23 22:49 UTC

Reply Score: -1

RE: Ugly Font Rendering
by AdamW on Tue 23rd Aug 2011 22:55 in reply to "Ugly Font Rendering"
AdamW Member since:
2005-07-06

For the fiftieth time: font rendering is an extremely subjective area and what you consider 'ugly', others may well consider nice. It's really not worth getting that worked up about.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Ugly Font Rendering
by Flatland_Spider on Tue 23rd Aug 2011 23:11 in reply to "RE: Ugly Font Rendering"
Flatland_Spider Member since:
2006-09-01

That's true, but the Liberation fonts, without any other changes, look better then the default.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Ugly Font Rendering
by righard on Tue 23rd Aug 2011 23:34 in reply to "RE: Ugly Font Rendering"
righard Member since:
2007-12-26

That's very true. Using me as an example, I love the fonts in Fedora, I always try to emulate it in other Arch since I tried Fedora once.

Also, many people love the fonts in Windows, I loath them.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Ugly Font Rendering
by smoerk on Wed 24th Aug 2011 00:48 in reply to "RE: Ugly Font Rendering"
smoerk Member since:
2009-07-10

There are subjective preferences and there is bad rendering. Ubuntu, OSX and Windows 7 render the fonts differently, but with good quality. The font rendering I see on my screen with Fedora 16 alpha is just wrong. This has nothing to do with taste, it's objectively inferior to Ubuntu. Maybe it's a problem with the alpha version, I haven't compared it with previous Fedora releases.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Ugly Font Rendering
by allanregistos on Wed 24th Aug 2011 08:47 in reply to "RE: Ugly Font Rendering"
allanregistos Member since:
2011-02-10

For the fiftieth time: font rendering is an extremely subjective area and what you consider 'ugly', others may well consider nice. It's really not worth getting that worked up about.

I highly doubt that it is _extremely_ subjective area.
The font rendering is important(consider moving from XP to Fedora) and you will see the font difference.

What people missed about font rendering is not about BEAUTY where subjectivity applies, as you've said. It is about how the system properly displays the font without overlapping characters, the system must handle this properly so that it is easier for the user to read regardless of the beauty, and Linux desktop failed to address this. Yes the default font is readable enough, but it is still fall short of what fonts should be.

Try to replace your fonts via appearance and look at the characters on your desktop especially terminal, and you will see the ugly fonts.

Ubuntu at least have tried to address this, and I like their ubuntu fonts more than the liberation fonts or anything Fedora provides.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Ugly Font Rendering
by lucas_maximus on Wed 24th Aug 2011 21:41 in reply to "RE: Ugly Font Rendering"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

it is a well known problem with the auto hinter ... there is even a RPM repo for fixing it.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Ugly Font Rendering
by Neolander on Wed 24th Aug 2011 07:25 in reply to "Ugly Font Rendering"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Here's an interesting read about "ugly" font rendering.

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2007/06/12.html

Basically, there is no proper font rendering on a screen, only compromises. People who are used to the Apple approach (visual correctness) will think it looks better, people who are used to the Microsoft approach (crispness and readability) will think it looks better, etc...

GNOME 2 allowed you to choose which rendering algorithm you prefer, which was a nice touch even though the dialog was confusingly worded. Don't know if the feature is still there in GNOME 3

Edited 2011-08-24 07:26 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Ugly Font Rendering
by _txf_ on Wed 24th Aug 2011 09:07 in reply to "RE: Ugly Font Rendering"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

Don't know if the feature is still there in GNOME 3


Sums up Gnome 3 very nicely...

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE: Ugly Font Rendering
by gilboa on Wed 24th Aug 2011 07:29 in reply to "Ugly Font Rendering"
gilboa Member since:
2005-07-06

... Not sure that this is the issue your hitting, but there's an issue with auto-hinting on some display / GPU configuration that makes Fedora 15 fonts look horrible on some machines (I hit it on my Laptop, but not on my workstations... go figure).

The solution is quite simple:
Create a file name 99-autohinter-only.conf in /etc/fonts/conf.d.

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM "fonts.dtd">
<fontconfig>
<match target="font">
<edit name="autohint" mode="assign">
<bool>true</bool>
</edit>
</match>
</fontconfig>


Not sure if it works on F16 (I've yet to try it).

- Gilboa

Edited 2011-08-24 07:30 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Ugly Font Rendering
by orestes on Wed 24th Aug 2011 13:31 in reply to "RE: Ugly Font Rendering"
orestes Member since:
2005-07-06

Cue Fred Sanford like heart attack claims whenever someone mentions text files and simple in the same sentence...

I've definitely seen the weirdness you're talking about though. On my system Fedora's got some of the best font rendering out of box of any OS I've seen. On my coworker's laptop it looks godawful by default until one applies the hinting change.

As for the people whining about the base font itself, you could, you know, take the two clicks or so and change it to one you prefer. It's not like we're in the dark old days of hand configuring X11 with Type 1 fonts

Oh, and the font hinting settings are accessible through Gnome-Tweak-Tool. Should be in the F16 repos if it's not installed by default

Edited 2011-08-24 13:33 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Ugly Font Rendering
by AdamW on Wed 24th Aug 2011 16:21 in reply to "RE: Ugly Font Rendering"
AdamW Member since:
2005-07-06

Well, what that does is disable the bytecode interpreter and use autohinting only. It's a wonderful example of the subjectivity of font rendering, in fact. Here's the history.

The freetype autohinter is a workaround for the fact that bytecode interpretation (reading special instructions that come with a font which tell you how to hint it, essentially) was patented. Fedora is serious about known patents, so Fedora prior to F15 disabled freetype's bytecode interpreter and used autohinting only.

One of the #1 'fix Fedora's ugly font rendering' "tips" for Fedora 14 and earlier was to install a modified freetype package which enabled the bytecode interpreter.

Since F15 the patent on the bytecode interpreter is dead, so Fedora's freetype ships with the bytecode interpreter enabled. Autohinting is only used for fonts which don't have a bytecode. Now, one of the #1 'fix Fedora's ugly font rendering' "tips" is how to configure freetype to use the autohinter all the time - i.e. the precise opposite of the old "tip".

Need any more proof that this is an utterly subjective area? ;)

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE: Ugly Font Rendering
by korpenkraxar on Wed 24th Aug 2011 16:08 in reply to "Ugly Font Rendering"
korpenkraxar Member since:
2005-09-10

Install the infinality patches and you will have the best font rendering in the industry. http://www.infinality.net/blog/

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Ugly Font Rendering
by lucas_maximus on Wed 24th Aug 2011 21:39 in reply to "Ugly Font Rendering"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

You will need the infinatlity RPMS to fix it.

http://www.infinality.net/fedora/linux/

unfortunately Fedora 16 is not supported yet (still being alpha) ... but this should fix font rendering for Fedora.

Reply Parent Score: 2