Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 4th Sep 2011 15:48 UTC
Legal "Secret U.S. government cables show a stunning willingness by senior Canadian officials to appease American demands (more here) for a U.S.-style copyright law here. The documents describe Canadian officials as encouraging American lobbying efforts. They also cite cabinet minister Maxime Bernier raising the possibility of showing U.S. officials a draft bill before tabling it in Parliament. The cables, from the U.S. Embassy in Ottawa, even have a policy director for then industry minister Tony Clement suggesting it might help U.S. demands for a tough copyright law if Canada were placed among the worst offenders on an international piracy watch list. Days later, the U.S. placed Canada alongside China and Russia on the list." Unbelievable. Suddenly I understand why the SFPD had no qualms about acting as henchmen for Apple goons to violate someone's constitutional rights. If a government is messed up, it only makes sense this is reflected in the corporate policies of its prime corporations.
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Human mess
by zima on Sun 4th Sep 2011 17:27 UTC
zima
Member since:
2005-07-06

If a government is messed up, it only makes sense this is reflected in the corporate policies of its prime corporations.

You know, I would argue it's not the only route such influences propagate. The relationships are vastly more complex. Ultimately, systems of governance are also a reflection of their societies... at the least, that's where the people forming the govs come from (from where else?)

And however the "average interviewed passersby" would publicly despise corruption, etc. - given the chance, they would gladly cut out a slice of the cake for themselves, more likely that not. Consider a hypothetical family which openly despises "gov spending waste" ...but with one of its members being, say, an engineer or blue-collar worker involved in some publicly founded project - that particular work will be of course essential, and the price fair. Or a soldier in the family - whatever the exposed systematic abuses or shady reasons for operations, that one man will be always honourable (if the exposed stuff is not simply ignored - it's frightening how large percentages of the troops in Iraq still thought quite recently that the place had anything to do with 9/11...)

I was living some time in one dorm room with somebody from a so called developing country, which at the time was undergoing quite a turmoil (with constant reports in world news TV channels) - supposedly partly because of the widespread corruption; my room mate openly declaring to despise it, blaming it for the poor state of affair in his country.
And there he was, in a far & comfortable place with relatively very high prices of living (funded mostly via how one of his family members was a public official at his place), "studying" (a non-course mostly useless to him in the future, for the paper, cheating whenever he could). With a nice job at one public office essentially awaiting for him, at return.
Oh, did I mention that he also hated corruption?

Many blame govs for recent financial turmoils. Those happened in places where quite a few people are also unable to keep balanced personal budgets, and with staggering rates of living on a debt.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Human mess
by jack_perry on Sun 4th Sep 2011 17:34 in reply to "Human mess"
jack_perry Member since:
2005-07-06

Right. There's bad, and there's worse. If the US govt is bad, we can at least be grateful that it isn't worse. And we also have the opportunity to change it. Whining because it isn't perfect hardly seems reasonable.

(This is not an excuse to shrug & do nothing, but it is a reminder to keep things in perspective.)

Oddly, the quotes excerpted from the leak seem to imply that Canada was swaying the US, not the reverse -- contradicting the headline. Maybe if I read the linked article, it'll be different.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Human mess
by Alfman on Sun 4th Sep 2011 17:49 in reply to "Human mess"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

zima,

"And however the 'average interviewed passersby' would publicly despise corruption, etc. - given the chance, they would gladly cut out a slice of the cake for themselves, more likely that not."

Interesting perspective. I think there's also an element of self selection going on though. Those who are honest and are not corrupt and genuinely willing to work towards a greater public good may face much larger political resistance than those who are willing to play into the corruption.

So, in my opinion, government is not as clearly a reflection of the public as you indicated.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Human mess
by zima on Sun 4th Sep 2011 18:22 in reply to "RE: Human mess"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Well I wrote (original emphasis / italics maintained):

not the only route such influences propagate. The relationships are vastly more complex. Ultimately, systems of governance are also a reflection of their societies...

So I'm not quite sure what "government is not as clearly(??) a reflection of the public as you indicated" (emphasis mine) would mean - other than essentially retreating to the popular sentiments of avoiding basically any liability (mental/internal or otherwise) from how we are also very much responsible for the actions of our govs. Escaping to "us vs. them" ("they are the filthy, the guilty, the evil ones")

No, it is us. Also in who we collectively choose to promote to public positions, what traits we cherish there, in the end.

Reply Parent Score: 1