Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 4th Sep 2011 15:48 UTC
Legal "Secret U.S. government cables show a stunning willingness by senior Canadian officials to appease American demands (more here) for a U.S.-style copyright law here. The documents describe Canadian officials as encouraging American lobbying efforts. They also cite cabinet minister Maxime Bernier raising the possibility of showing U.S. officials a draft bill before tabling it in Parliament. The cables, from the U.S. Embassy in Ottawa, even have a policy director for then industry minister Tony Clement suggesting it might help U.S. demands for a tough copyright law if Canada were placed among the worst offenders on an international piracy watch list. Days later, the U.S. placed Canada alongside China and Russia on the list." Unbelievable. Suddenly I understand why the SFPD had no qualms about acting as henchmen for Apple goons to violate someone's constitutional rights. If a government is messed up, it only makes sense this is reflected in the corporate policies of its prime corporations.
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RE: Human mess
by Alfman on Sun 4th Sep 2011 17:49 UTC in reply to "Human mess"
Alfman
Member since:
2011-01-28

zima,

"And however the 'average interviewed passersby' would publicly despise corruption, etc. - given the chance, they would gladly cut out a slice of the cake for themselves, more likely that not."

Interesting perspective. I think there's also an element of self selection going on though. Those who are honest and are not corrupt and genuinely willing to work towards a greater public good may face much larger political resistance than those who are willing to play into the corruption.

So, in my opinion, government is not as clearly a reflection of the public as you indicated.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Human mess
by zima on Sun 4th Sep 2011 18:22 in reply to "RE: Human mess"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Well I wrote (original emphasis / italics maintained):

not the only route such influences propagate. The relationships are vastly more complex. Ultimately, systems of governance are also a reflection of their societies...

So I'm not quite sure what "government is not as clearly(??) a reflection of the public as you indicated" (emphasis mine) would mean - other than essentially retreating to the popular sentiments of avoiding basically any liability (mental/internal or otherwise) from how we are also very much responsible for the actions of our govs. Escaping to "us vs. them" ("they are the filthy, the guilty, the evil ones")

No, it is us. Also in who we collectively choose to promote to public positions, what traits we cherish there, in the end.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Human mess
by Alfman on Sun 4th Sep 2011 18:55 in reply to "RE[2]: Human mess"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

zima,

"So I'm not quite sure what 'government is not as clearly(??) a reflection of the public as you indicated'"

I meant exactly that, I'm still not sure what the issue is you are taking with my statement? If I misunderstood your view, then I apologize

"No, it is us. Also in who we collectively choose to promote to public positions, what traits we cherish there, in the end."

It still seems to me that you are assuming that corruption in government is purely a reflection of corruption in individuals, without considering that perhaps non-corrupt individuals face more challenges in politics than corrupt ones.

Keep in mind, a dishonest politician has all the maneuvers that an honest politician has, and then some. To the extent that he doesn't miscalculate the risks of his dishonest actions, he has more opportunities than the honest politician, all else being equal.

Edited 2011-09-04 19:07 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3